THIS Is Why You Never Give Up on Someone

You are listening to the Provoke and Inspire podcast. Welcome to Provoke and Inspire podcast. We are, as you can see, or if you can't see, you should be able to hear that we're all together just on the warmth that we're sharing between and just one thing. Do you think people look better in person or better on zoom? Because I zoom way better in zoom because like Chad, I thought he the the stuff I can do to doctor my appearance on zoom is really impressive. And you'll forget that the filters on. Yes. And you'll get so used to looking at yourself in zoom, you actually gain all this confidence. And then when you look in the mirror, you're like, man, I look what happened to me? As I was saying, the UK sweet, sweet Ganesh, I look like Mount Vesuvius. No, but it's not. It's not that you look haggard. It's more. You look experienced. Yeah, well, you euphemisms aside, speaking of experience. So this is the six hundred and twelfth episode of the provoke, an inspiring podcast. Wow. And the day as we're recording, this is what the twenty ninth of October twenty twenty five. Fun fact November second, twenty fifteen was the first ever released provoke and inspired podcast, so assumably. We may have even recorded it on a day like this exactly ten years ago. We should all go back to episode one and listen to it later on. Our tolerance for quality was, I don't know whether the right expression is high or low, but it was terrible. Luke just sounded like he was recording, like, I don't know, in his basement thousand yards away from his computer. Just I don't know. Anyway, we've we've come a long way. Uh, and I thought it would be fun is to reflect on that journey a little bit. Ten years. Ah, but is there gonna. I have a random story? Do you want it or not? Who were you talking to right there? You sounded so weepy. What are you talking about? I'm saying, do you want a random story? I don't know, later, I feel like, finish what you were saying then. I thought I was gonna play the soundbite instead. I keep waiting for a soundbite and nothing happens. Getting rid of you. We were getting ready. We were getting ready at you. So anyway, before I get to the random story I heard from Nigel, I know a lot of I've been getting. Yeah, I've been getting a lots of people have been asking me what is where is Nigel? How did you hear from Nigel? He sent me a text. Yeah. As you know, he's from New Zealand, but then he came to the US. But he is an undocumented immigrant. He overstayed his visa. So he was in Detroit, and some Ice agents picked him up and deported him to Chad. So now Nigel said he's writing a book about his new life in Chad. Wow. And he's wanted me to really say, you know, all of his fans to know that that he's he's back and he's he's trying he's hoping his book will be a success so he can live in an indoor facility. How is he's more inspiring than ever. All about this already. He and I have just been developing a relationship over all these years, quietly, very affectionately. And it's just been it's just been remarkable to walk with him, journey with him. I mean, apparently Chad, didn't Chad write a book called My New Life in Chad? Yeah. Yeah. If you want to know who Nigel is, you're going to have to go back to the earlier episodes, I think. Are you done? Uh, random story is not as engaging as the update on Nigel. However, I've been. You know, I wait, so that wasn't the random story. That was the preamble. The preamble? No, that was it was an update. Because Luke has been saying, could you clap so I know where to cut and start the episode. Luke said, what happened to Nigel? And he said it like that kind of, yeah, that was a while ago. Such a curiosity story. So anyway, so anyway, I, uh, I don't I don't know if you guys have ever thought, you know, to ask your wife why she wanted to marry you. I thought, I want to get to the bottom of why. Why? Jodi? Jodi married me, you know? Yeah. I thought you were going to say. Why aren't you married? Me? But I'm glad that you were asking it about your own wife. That's good. Yeah. Mysteries are best left unresolved. Yes, indeed. I don't want, uh, to get into that, Luke. And I'm sure that all the treatments will help. Yes. Gradually. Jodi. Why? I was very pensive when I said it. Why? Jodi, did you marry me? I thought, who knows what could happen, right? Romantic mysticism. I thought you'd say. Because you're so attractive. Rugged. Uh, because I'm so rugged. Intellectual. Intellectual. Uh. Wise. Sexy. Yeah. Yeah, like a microphone. Like I'm a, like a magnet of, like, wealthy. You know what I mean? Money? Yeah. Tons of money. So I was thinking, what is she gonna say? And she said, because you really know the Bible. And I thought That's why you married me. You could have married the Bible. I mean, like, it's like what? So you married me because I know the Bible. I'm like a lot of guys that know the Bible. Why don't you just marry the Bible? You know what I mean? No, not really, but, yeah, you know, it's like, just get a big giant Bible, some wheels on it, and then just as much as I don't wanna say this, I have an existential interest in her not having married a Bible. Yes. Yeah, exactly. So, I don't know. You're probably gonna have to cut this. I'm not being disrespectful, by the way. Yes. Uh, of the Bible. I'm just saying she could have married. Jody would have been much happier if she would have just gone ahead and married a Bible instead of, you know. So I'm apparently the Bible man. Yes. And from now on, I want you to call me BM. Bible movement. I told my son the other day that the key to happiness is to be able to laugh at your own jokes. Yes. Grandpa teaches that every day. So, Chad, your wife, did she marry you? Because, uh, the Bible. The Bible? Yeah. I mean, I this is a this is a very important lesson. I thought this I thought that was just the norm for young single men out there. Yeah. Yeah. So every woman. Hey, baby, you're like the NIV. David's random story. All right, let's move on. So today, uh, what I thought would be cool, since we're all together in this special moment, we could reflect on the fact that we have had ten years, almost to the day of podcasting. I know it does seem wild. I feel so old. Yeah, well, there is that. It's best not to reflect on what that means, but six hundred and twelve episodes. And so I had some thoughts that, you know, part of what has made this whole process really interesting beyond the years that we've done this together is, you know, in many ways, Chad, you've had a very interesting story as it relates to this podcast all the way from its origins coming out of Come and Live to the various ups and downs you've had in terms of Steiger, and then kind of going off and doing different things and that now coming full circle. I think there are a lot of things, as I was reflecting on it, that I think kind of run parallel to the podcast itself, weirdly enough. Um, and I think for those listening who are going through life, who are wrestling with seasons and ups and downs and decisions that they're making and places that they find themselves in, I know parts of your story have been very interesting, but I think now would be kind of a cool way to tell it, maybe more holistically, because I think it not only tells the story of the podcast, weirdly enough, but I think it would be very encouraging for someone who might find themselves in various seasons and stages. So the reality that here we are ten years later, six hundred and twelve episodes, when at the very start, I thought that it was kind of like a flash in the pan, like, oh yeah, we're going to do this podcast. And in my mind it was like a six month kind of thing, like, we're going to do it for a few episodes and realize that it's too hard or we don't. We can't connect with enough guests or people don't listen or whatever. And then it would go away. And I have routinely over the last ten years, as far as I know, been the only one of the four of us who has deliberately tried to exit the podcast, for sure, on more than one occasion, which the podcast listener or viewer probably does not know about. But I'm now hereby saying that at least on two, possibly three occasions, that I think I came to either David, Ben, Luke or all of you together and just said, hey, I think I'm done and I think I'm on to something else. And and so there's I find myself fully astounded at the fact that we tied you down. We didn't let you. Yeah. You. Yeah. You found a way to include me through all of the messiness, but also the beauty of where I've been. My life story and the podcast do carry a very odd correlation, because of how much I have felt that it was okay for me to be myself on the podcast and to admit that I'm struggling with God, or I'm struggling in marriage, or I'm struggling in life and in business and I have not felt. I've actually never felt as though I was supposed to show up and present myself in some way. Which is why oftentimes at the beginning of the podcast, when there's banter for the six hundred and twelve episodes, I challenge the listener to discern how many times I actually engage in the first part of the banter, because I just like watching you guys do do your thing, and I'm just over here kind of like quietly chuckling, and I don't really feel much of a need to interject, but but that that's oddly liberating because if this was a true performance and I was just here to perform, then I would be like, I gotta jump in right at the start, or I've got to make sure I always say something profound, because otherwise what's my part? And I've somehow just felt like it's okay for me to be quiet at times, oftentimes for long lengths of a season. I feel really, truly blown away that God has worked such a wonder in my life that I'm back here in Minneapolis with Steiger, not just to record a podcast, but to take on the most important mission of my life. And that is something I never thought I'd be saying. Even like a month and a half ago, I didn't think I'd be saying it. So it's so exciting, I. I mean, being authentic is really important for all four of us. You know, we don't. We want to be authentic and the struggles and what it means to be like we say, follow Jesus in a in the kind of world we live in today. But the reason I could never accept you leaving was because I felt like when you're struggling, I thought, that's why we you should be here. Because I didn't want to lose contact with you and the podcast. That was the excuse, you know, to keep the connection to me. It was a fight for your soul. Ben said. Yeah, I think Chaz just needs to move on, you know? And whatever. I thought, no, he can't. I don't think I said that he did. And Luke was, I don't know what Luke was doing. Luke said. He's already he's already gone. I think in addition to what you're saying about our care for you, Chad, it's also been a very valuable part of the podcast that you've been vulnerable like that and you've shared it because I think we've had feedback on from guests as well, saying, you know, I identify when Chad shares something he's struggling with. It's so helpful for a lot of people. And it's been challenging for me, I think for all of us, that you are so willing to keep looking to Jesus and being honest and being being present and so, you know, challenges us to go like, well, I haven't got it all figured out either. There are things, you know, so it's like, not like you said, not needing to put on a show. I think when you're in the room, you encourage that. You encourage, hey, let's just be ourselves. There's, you know, so I think that's really been an important part. This can seem self-indulgent, but I think it's kind of special but quirky at the same time. I don't know if we did this before, but it's cool. I think you read it out once, but I'd like to, did I? I'm going to read it again because I think it's so cool. And I like asked it like describe the podcast and particularly the role of each person in it. And I thought it was stunningly accurate and kind of a cool sort of mirror into, I think, the role that God has asked all of us to play. So it says. Hosted by Ben Pearce, it includes David Pierce, Chad Johnson, Luke Greenwood. It challenges followers of Jesus to live with boldness, authenticity and purpose in today's secular culture. The show blends humor, honesty and conviction, tackling current events, faith and creativity with real world stories and practical insight. And then it says, kind of gives a breakdown of each person it says Ben Pearce, the visionary host who connects faith, culture, guiding deep yet accessible conversations. David Pearce, the fiery storyteller and founder of Steiger, bringing urgency and a missionary edge. Chad Johnson, the heart and soul of the show, which I think is true, grounding discussions in emotional honesty and intimacy with God. And then Luke Greenwood, the strategist and thinker offering a global perspective and practical missional wisdom. Together, they inspire believers to live out the gospel and reach the world around them with courage and truth. It's very cool. I don't know, it sounds weird. And again, I don't mean this in a self-indulgent way, but we've been doing this for ten years. We've been doing this for six hundred episodes, and we are a weird family, right? And I know you mentioned this. Maybe it was two years ago. I don't know. But like, even as I've been reflecting on the the reasons why I've been so persistent and I think we could probably all agree I've been the driving, persistent force that hasn't let us quit. Right? Oh, yeah. And I think partially it's because, like, I see intrinsic value in the community that we are like, it's cool and weird, right? Like under what other circumstances? Obviously you and I have some somewhat of a natural connection, and obviously we're probably still see David. It's a little forced, but I mean, yeah, but again, in the crazy busy world that we live in, the fact that we've come together six hundred and twelve times, not always all together in various combinations, and had these moments of laughter and like intimacy and talking about deep things. And it's been the spectrum of emotions from contentious every once in a while to emotional and deep and everything in between. I think that's been such a profound means to an end that I've never felt like if it was anything else, it would matter. Do you know what I mean? And I don't mean that in a weird, like, kumbaya sense. I've just felt like, I love this. Yeah, like. And I love talking to you guys, and I love diving into these deep topics and being challenged. And I also think that the combination is so unusual that it's a, it's a fun and iron sharpens iron kind of thing. And I just, I don't know, I think that that's part of why I've felt the need to just this has intrinsic value. And then almost anything that else that happens is like a bonus in a weird. So, I mean, I believe everything you're saying is true, Ben, but why do you edit everything that I say out of the podcast? Well, that's one of the I'm pausing because that was one of those moments of contention. I'm pausing there so I can edit that out. Yeah, that was a conversation forward. Well, you said that. You said the other day to me, you said, yeah, you probably have talked more to Chad than your wife sometimes. That's not true. Hopefully that's I talked to him a lot. And, uh, I agree with you. It's very cool that we get to connect every week and just talk. We've all talked to Chad more than we've talked to our own wives, I think. Yeah, I've talked to me more than my own wife. Yes. But I do think to go back to a point that David made earlier, he used an interesting phrase, which is a fight for my soul. And I would say that now, looking back on the last six years, ever since I, I was honest about the emotional affair, which at this point matters very, very little in the grand scheme of my story because it feels so insignificant. Although at that time it felt so huge and it was like it was the catalyst for me stepping away from public ministry and all that. But over the years, it's it's become less and less of a blip. Maybe, but it's interesting to see the timing related to all that, and then the kind of the business endeavors, the attempt at reinventing myself as a businessman and a entrepreneur. Career. Chad, now that the story makes sense, I see that that I was just trying to run away from God and my effort was to escape God, and that was really what I wanted. And that was why it pissed me off so much to keep doing the podcast, because I was like, I don't really want to be related to God. I don't really want to be tied to God. And yet here I am every week talking about God. And I didn't really have animosity towards God or against God. It was more just what I think the pain of ministry not materializing the way that I thought it would, and not knowing how to deal with that in a healthy way. And so just it's funny now looking back on it that that I think David's right. I think that had I peaced out on the podcast like I wanted to several times that that would have then also been the peacing out on Steiger and it would have been very easy to just be like, well, that was this thing in the past, and I never want to return to the call that God put on my life twenty almost, you know, twenty years ago, I think that selfishly, I wanted to say that I quit my job with tooth and nail records, that I moved my family from Seattle to Nashville, that I did hard things and look at all the amazing results be, in this case, being a expressive ministry all over the world, accomplishing incredible feats for God, where everyone recognized us and noticed us and talked about us. And so I think there was a lot of prideful arrogance and a lot of Out of self-centered hopes and dreams that when Jesus talks about surrender and sacrifice, I was more interested in blowing up and recognition. Uh, so I think, yeah, I don't I don't know if that makes sense, but I think that was the. So. So tell us about what happened for you to be coming back into the mission now and a bit of like, your heart for what you're going to be doing right now. Well, I mean, yeah, the the me being here at all today or, you know, just period was about as opposite, like I remember when I called David, uh, and I think a week or so later called Ben. I think in both cases I referenced the Jonah story and I thought, you know, I've been praying that God would use me in like, a Joseph kind of anointing, but clearly he's just giving me a Jonah anointing. And, uh, he said, forget the Joseph thing. Jonah's better. Uh, but I do think the reality for me is that I was going in the opposite direction from where God truly had planned for me. And then about six months ago, when I was laid off of the second job, that didn't work out around the time that the festival was also showing very clear signs of distress. I was was just like, I've got to figure out what I'm how to provide for my family. I've always felt that there was a verse. I think it's in second Timothy one or two that says the man that does not provide for his family is worse off than a sinner. I chased after a bunch of really cool possibilities, all of which were just entrepreneurial, business career two point zero, all that stuff. And when Aaron Pierce sent me a message on LinkedIn where I'd been posting for a couple of months and he said, hey, I, I've never on here, but I came on here and I saw all your posts. We're thinking about bringing someone on to help on the development, the fundraising side, and I wonder if you'd be open to a conversation. It just dawned on me, like the fact that that morning was maybe the worst that I had felt. I mean, I have talked on the podcast about how hard this season has been, and that morning, prior to seeing that message, may have been one of the lowest points that I had been at. And suicidal ideation, just thinking about, like, not how do I kill myself? Or should I go jump off a bridge? But thinking more about if I could remove myself? What, like what would be the easiest way to get myself out of here? And again, not. I don't want to overstate it. I don't want to exaggerate the story, but dealing with heaviness like I've never dealt with. And then and then appears this message. And I immediately forwarded it to Beth because she's feeling all this pressure from me, all this I don't know how to provide. And nothing's working. Everything's falling apart. It just felt like a family member had reached out and said, hey, we still love you, and we still think, you know, there might be something here. When I read it, it almost immediately I was like, I have no idea what exactly this means or how this would look. You had other opportunities coming up as well, but you really felt a calling as well in relation to this? Yeah. It was. I like how you described it. You shared a post and you talked about the just how this is the most important role for you that you've played because it's there's a calling, there's there's God's mission in it. And I thought that was really beautiful. It was weird because I thought that I was going to go work for my, like, business idol person. I had an amazing interview. It went so great. And then they said, we're sorry, but a person with real consulting experience got the role instead of you. But it was so close. The the this guy's wife, the co-founder, she saw your post on LinkedIn. She passed it around. We think you're great. I was like, ah, but so then I was like, okay, well, that kind of closes that door. And of course, maybe it was the day either the day of or the day before I was going to send my letter to Kate and Aaron saying, I'm in, I'm all in, let's go for this. I get hit up by the same company that had turned me away like a week or two earlier, and they said, hey, we have another role that opened up for you, and it's actually even better than the first one. Of course, you're working with even higher people. It would have been great, but it wouldn't have been right. And I'm sure someone amazing has taken it. So that's the first part. The second part was the post yesterday. The only organization in the world where these come live. Knuckle tattoos would make any sense whatsoever in the form of a story loop. Is Steiger International because I start, I left everything to start come and live. I ended up selling Come and Live to Steiger for one dollar and and came on board as a missionary. And so the only place where these knuckles would ever make sense again would be Steiger. And for so long I've looked at them and I've wondered, why in the world did I get these dumb tattoos on my knuckles that say, come live? And now I'm working with, you know, the dude Perfect's and the whoever's in the world. And it just is such a random thing. And so now it's so crazy. David said that, you know, his kind of instinct or I think Holy Spirit inspired feeling to to fight for you to stay on was connected to this soul thing. You know, you mentioned when Aaron reached out that it was like family. And I think for me, my view on it was like, like I said, because I saw the intrinsic value of what we do here, and because I really do see it like a family, it didn't even make sense that you would ever leave in the way that I would never have. You know, my family's, my family. We deal with whatever we got to deal with now. You had to step away for various reasons. You know, decisions come with consequences that sort of impacted your involvement for different seasons. But to me, I never saw it like pragmatically or like, you know, because we were even talking earlier about, you know, God has blessed this podcast. We've had incredible guests, we've had good numbers at times. We've never had this massive viral global moment. And we can talk about what success is. And, you know, even like I was saying to you earlier, like this, weird, I think, Western American notion that every story has to end with a million views. Like, for it to be considered a success, it has to be big, ultimately. And if it's a slow journey, it still has to ultimately end in big for it to be validated. And whether that's just a myth that we create. But to me, because I've had this strong sense that this is family, we were going to work through whatever we had to work through. Right. And that was and of course, ever going to force you to stay, if that's what you if you wanted to go. But I was never going to make you leave, You know what I mean? And I was going to just go through whatever we had to go through. And in the same way that if one of my kids had an issue, I would just work through that issue with them. But they would never change the relationship in that sense. And I, you know, again, I'm not trying to like pat ourselves on the back, but I think that kept that thread alive. Yeah. And I think maybe what you're saying as well, is one of the values we've learned in what God has called us to do through this podcast is to sit down as four guys and have a genuine, authentic conversation and be ourselves and dig deep into stuff. And that in itself is is a big part of why we're doing this. Then there's of course, the link to the mission we're all part of. And now Chad, even more so connected to that is just like, it's, it's, um, a it's been a voice also to express what we believe God has called us to do what we're seeing God do around the world. A lot of people have come into the mission of Steiger because they've heard the podcast and understood more what it was about and been inspired to come to the mission school. And I love that connection. I love that we can all be doing different things in the mission that God has called us to, but then we get to sit down and as friends talk about anything that Ben brings to us and, uh, and then have that link into the mission. Like, for me, those two things are what makes this podcast what it is. Yeah. And one of our core values in Steiger is family, right? And if we were just ruthlessly pragmatic about this, you know, we wouldn't be living out the value that I think God has called us to. And I think, like you said, by definition, if this is going to be authentic, then we have to express that and not there can't be consequences for that authenticity. It's real. Right? And so anyway, I think it's cool. Chad, I you know, I like I was saying to you, like, I there are times when I wonder why God hasn't given this a bigger voice or a bigger platform, and yet without being cheesy at all. Like if this has been nothing but a lifeline to continue your story as a follower of Jesus, and then and then even on a more fun personal level as part of now again, as part of what we get to do in a full way, it was worth it. Like, I would do it all again. I would do all these episodes and you know, it's been a lot of blood, sweat and tears for all of us. But I would say particularly on my end, to keep fighting for this. And I've never, you know, I think even for those listening, you know, I think we're extracting principles of family. But I think even just persistence of, you know, I think God has wanted us to continue to do this. And I've never felt otherwise. And again, as I said just before, I think sometimes we can think that means it's going to look a certain way or culminate in a certain thing. But I think I've always had a sense of like, okay, God, if you want this to happen, you're going to have to make that feel right. You're going to have to continue to confirm that. And I think this to me is just another confirmation of that being true. So no, absolutely, it is, uh, consistently an opportunity to watch how faithfulness plays itself out or works itself out amidst the very messy reality of all of us going through life. It would be just like God to bring me to repentance and to help me to realize that the greatest calling of my life is to serve not as, uh, under the fancy title of Chief Development Officer for Steiger International. Although I appreciate and respect nice titles, I have the pleasure of funding a global youth movement with friends, fun story and frameworks and all those things are eerily like perfect for my suiting. Well, yeah. I mean, it was clear that from the beginning that God brought us together. You know, just how everyone would back before we got in contact with each other. Everyone is saying, have you heard of Come and Live. You need to talk to Chad. I'm like, I was sick of it. Sick of it. I was like, who is this Chad? You gotta talk to Chad. Come on. You talk to Chad, you goon. I don't want to talk to Chad. You talk to Chad. But you know, when we met, it was so clearly you could feel it when you meet someone. And it's the same with Luke. And then obviously, Ben's my son. So when you met Ben, later on when I met Ben, my son's. Yeah. Jody said, this is your son. And I go, what's his name? You know, when he was eighteen. But, um, Gifford, you feel this family thing. And we felt that from the beginning, even though we had wild adventures. But every family does. And I think it's so exciting how this is. I think we've got some great things to do in the future together. Well, it's a two way street because I can remember at Come and Live hearing all the same. But have you heard of No Longer Music? Have you heard of David Pearce? Have you heard of the Steiger thing? Have you heard of what's going on? And and really a friend of mine before I made my public repentance slash super excited. I have a job working with Steiger yesterday. Uh, I had a friend message me the earliest little document that was the vision for Come and Live. Before there was a logo. Before there was anything. I don't even know how he had it. It was so old, and I was so embarrassed. On. On. What's that? Papyrus. Limestone. Yeah, it was so. Yeah, it was verified by Wes Huff. It was. It was embarrassing on so many levels, except for it pointed out that what I desired was a global youth movement. So the fact that the Lord is now using me to fund what I dreamt of twenty years ago, even though it's taken a really weird and strange way of getting there. Uh, it's it's really mind blowing. The timing is important. Timing? That's very interesting. Yeah. I don't know, to put to put on a bow on this maybe. I know, David, one of the things I've heard you say my whole life, frankly, is that so much of ministry is just not quitting. Right. And to me, it feels as though the moral to this story is don't quit. Don't quit on on, God. Don't quit on each other. Right? Don't quit on the calling that God has for your friends when they're going through a difficult time. That's my point, right? It seems like the thing that ties this all together is just persevere is persevere, that it's, you know, and they even they even talk about that in the context of marriages. Right. They say that if you would just hang in there, they have all these studies that say that couples that are kind of on the rocks, that they would they would just hang in there. Most of them tend to work out like, or whatever, you know, those studies in terms of perseverance. The reality is, I think perseverance is a beautiful way to tie this all together, that God was pursuing you and and using this weird little family to kind of to hold you when it was rough. And here we are. Yeah. I mean, I think that that was another thing that I heard. Aaron. Or maybe one of you say, um, was that Steiger is not the most well-known ministry in the world. It's, uh, it continues to grow, and God continues to do amazing things through it, but we just don't give up. So we just keep going. And he said, so for you in this role, we we are going to provide you with the tools, the resources, the mentoring, the consultants to ensure that you can perform this role not just for eighteen, because the typical person lasting in this role. I did my research. It's really embarrassing. It's like eighteen months or something. It's like a half minutes. Yeah. Nine the average length of a lot longer. I've already made it twelve minutes. That's incredible. Exactly. Wow. I'm amazing. Yeah, but but but the process is why it's not going to be like that, right? Right. The process is why. And so when he said that in in and I realized the investment that is not only being made in me, but the investment that you all have made in the vision that God has given you, whether it's the podcast, whether it's no longer music, whether it's something in Europe, whether any piece of the Steiger puzzle it there, I can now say with enormous confidence that consistency is king, and that your commitment to seeing people like myself through from start to finish is remarkable. And I think that I've become a much stronger evangelist for Steiger because I've been through the shit storm, and not only because, well, you know, I'm a good salesperson and therefore I can sell this. Well, that's why I'd say that's a job that people go out of often is if they're in it only because, you know, it's a job and I'm good at raising money. It doesn't work. The reason why you're in this role is because you understand the mission. You're called by God to be part of this. It's something you have lived from twenty years ago. And that's that's what will make that role strong, is by being somebody who is called to reach the lost and to see a missionary movement to reach this generation. And you go, what do we need to make this happen? We want to invite others to join in financially, and that's how we make it happen, because you're put on this planet for this mission. And I think everyone, if you're listening to this, there's something like that for you. Why are you put on this planet? You know, what is the mission God has called you to? And it can be in the context of a traditional career, but there's going to be something of the Holy Spirit in that, where it's not just and it's true. Even if you're in missions, you can be in it for the, you know, as a career, you know, in the wrong way. But when it's right, it's like, this is this is worth. This is worth giving my life to. You know, this is this has this has eternal consequences, which it does. And also to me, it just speaks of God's faithfulness in that there is no wasted time. Like, I think God wants us to make decisions that would lead to our thriving. And I think he redirects our choices and there are consequences to our choices. But at the same time, it's like what I was saying to you in the car just like an hour ago. You know, it feels like you almost had to go through what you went through for your heart and your head to be in a place that it needs to be to play this role at this time. Yeah. You know, like both from a skill acquisition perspective, but also from a softening and a kind of dying to a part of you that maybe was resisting or would have resisted a role like this five, ten years ago. God has used these trials. Not that they've been easy to shape you in such a way that I think, has made you the perfect person for this, this job at this time. And that's really cool to watch. Yeah. And I would argue even five months ago I would have been resistant even probably two months ago I would have been resistant. But the Lord did do an amazing work. And all of what you just said is true. I think especially for the listener right now who is wondering, how does this relate back to them? I can attest that even if and when you go through lengthy seasons like multiple years of questioning, insecurity, uncertainty, I don't know what I'm supposed to be doing. I don't know why it's not working out that that my life is now testament to God using and restoring all of that, even though I maybe, like the listener, also wondered, what am I doing here? I have no clue. Like why is this not blah blah blah, you know all that. I mean, I think it's, I think that if anything, God has now given me a relatability to the common man, so to speak, that I never had previously and a softening of my heart towards challenges that people go through who aren't living the oh, I'm like, I've made a commitment to Jesus and now I live this crazy radical missions life somewhere and come and live worked out and it's blown up. And it's hard to relate with who or where I am. I'd also say to listeners, you directing to listeners, David, I'd say if you're listening and you want to encourage Chad in his new role, you want to call him up and make a donation to the mission. Yeah, but seriously, I know it's true. And some of you want to get rid of your crypto. This is a good time. It's a good time to get rid of crypto. And if you're listening, you didn't know. You know, this is representing a mission. And we do need funds for what we do. And Chad's going to play an important role. You're going to hear from him. Oh yes. Exactly. So you could write to Chad and say, Chad, I'm going to start supporting the mission today because I want to encourage you in your new role. I would love that as a joke. Always saying, just contact Luke right at staggered. Org you for the first and final time. We'll have a Staiger email address, which I think is symbolic of something. It is? Yeah. No. You contact Chad if you want to encourage him by giving us some of your hard won money. Hard? But if you have complaints, you still talk to Luca. I knew that you were going to say that. Good, good things you don't like. If there's things that offended you by what Ben has said. Are you upset because they keep editing everything I say on the podcast? Then you could contact Luke. Anyway, let's move on. That was great. Enjoyed that conversation. Thanks, Chad. Welcome back. Yeah, well, you never left, but welcome back. Welcome back knuckles. Finally. We are the world. No, we are the world. We are the children we are. Can we just slowly fade out? You should write a book called My Knuckles Finally. Makes sense. Yeah. Or you can say knucklehead. Nice. All right, let's move on. Love, y'all. Peace.

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