Going Viral Didn’t Change My Life — Jesus Did. Ft. Paul Allen (Voice of the Minnesota Vikings)

So, Paul, how's life? Yeah. We're here. Broken housewives. Paul Allen, voice of the Vikings.

This is to see the Pierce boys. This is a dream. But not, to see you not on a US Bank Stadium sideline Yes. Holding a child Yeah. Which would be Ben's child, I believe.

That that's Asher. He he's no longer a child anymore, but yes. Really? Well, he's almost 13 now. Okay.

And and dad dad is David. Right? Yep. Yep. Yeah.

I think, the last time I saw your father holding your child Yep. On the sideline of US Bank Stadium was before a 2022 game against the LA chargers. Okay. And it was it was a season where the Vikings would take some of the worst craziest, zaniest losses. Oh, that all those one one score losses.

Yes. And and then and then the next year, you know, we eventually would would win a majority of those games and, get to the playoffs. But, actually, they went to the playoffs that year. But in that chargers game, Caleb Evans, a former corner Oh, yeah. All he had to do was catch the interception down by the three yard line, and the Vikings win the game.

Instead, it bounces out of his hands into the awaiting arms of not Keenan Allen, not Ladanian Tomlinson, not Mike Williams, Joshua Palmer, who didn't even play that much. Who? And he gets into the end zone, scores the touchdown. We lose the game. So the highlight of that day definitely was seeing your child and your father.

Yes. That's awesome. Okay. So you know what's funny, Paul? So, my grandpa, we grew up in Europe and then New Zealand after that.

So we never lived in The US until college. And my yeah. So I've now I knew that, but I didn't know it was that long. Yeah. So neither one of us I mean, we've come to Minnesota.

Our extended family's from Minnesota, but we never lived here till college. And but, of course, they're all from Minnesota, and so we're all, you know, the twins in '87 and '91 and and the Vikings and all that. But so what my grandpa would do is he would record VHS tapes Oh, yeah. Of the Vikings games, and then he would mail it to us. Yeah.

And then we'd get those tapes in the mail, and it was like Christmas every time it was. We watched the entire season. '98, of course, was like an epic season. That was our first season. Well, no.

He did it before, but that was, like, the big one. And then and then so so we watched this, and those were, of course. And then we, you know, we all remember what happened in '98 and how depressing that was. That was my first full year in Minnesota. Yeah.

Or another time, do you remember the famous call where you're like, no. Does he remember that? Yeah. I imagine you probably Well, so we listened to that one hearing you call that, but my grandpa had, he put the phone up to the radio, and we listened to it on his Entirely speaker. On in New Zealand, and we heard that call in New Zealand.

Well, that, that was my second year calling Vikings football. There was no social media. There was no Twitter. And given doing play by play for the Vikings is my first play by play job at any level. So we're, you know, we're gonna build a God related narrative here throughout the course of Provoke and Inspire.

And this this is a key part of it here because it comes to it it leads to expanding a following before social media, having to persevere through the former owner of the team, God rest his soul, not liking the no. No. The Cardinals have knocked the Vikings out of the playoffs, having to persevere through that off season wondering if I would even get a third year. But, that call right there was the first call that that people seem to pick up on nationally. Yeah.

Like, went viral. And be like, right. It went viral before viral. I don't know those things. Went viral.

Yeah. And, so so I I think that put me on the radar of, some people nationwide. But when it comes to your grandfather, you know, it's clear your grandfather is quite familiar with spiritual warfare, because the gospel of Jesus Christ is everything to us and everything to him. Right? Yep.

Yeah. Yeah. But there there also is a bad guy looming in the world or in control of the world as Revelation 12 would would, would teach. Amen? Okay.

So grandpa has the Pierce boys loving on the Vikings, listening to the announcer, watching the VHS tapes, always with a negative outcome. So I mean, it just shows whether it's the gridiron gospel or the gospel gospel that there's good and there's bad. But we got hope. You guys have experienced a lot of bad. Hope for the future, PA, in every way.

We have faith. That's right. For the Vikings and life in general. Yes. For sure.

It's, you know, sometimes when I speak, and then I'll start off talking about my my work with the Vikings or Cape Town or Canterbury or whatever. And and I'll draw an analogy in in very low key fashion, and I get out of it fast because I don't want hardcore theologians like the Pierce boys getting after me being like, did he just say he was Job? And are the Green Bay Packers really whomever came up and, the atmosphere? Away all the people and the animals and all that. No.

No. No. He's not saying that. What I'm saying is, as the Bible would go, Vikings fans know turmoil, but they also know faith. They also know deeply rooted in their souls, they can complain and they can they can get metaphorical boils.

They can, they can have friends turn on them for whatever the reason because they're negative about something involving the football team, but they're always gonna come back. Now see, at the end of the book of Job, I'm waiting for the 10 times of positive value that's coming out with the Super Bowl and stuff like that. This is the year. It's coming. Right?

That's it. We're got the Timberwolves. How can this be the year, JJ McCarthy, man? Let's go. I know you got the Timberwolves.

Hey. You know, doing nine to noon on KPM, that's the a topic right now. This is the, probably, maybe the first or second time in my twenty seven, twenty eight years working for KPAM here, where the day after the NFL released its schedule, 90% of the show was about the how. 10% was about Dublin, Ireland. Oh, I guess we have four of, four or five on the road very late in the season.

And where are the cold weather games? And, so that just shows you, a, how much we're all into the Timberwolves. And, b, how the state is really into the timber walls right now. Well, it's gotta be great for you. I gotta imagine the last two years having something this meaty and fun to talk about this deep into the summer has gotta be great.

Yeah. I well, I really love it, and I really love that, I think it was four state fairs ago, God decided he's gonna put Chris Finch in my life. And Chris and I, coach of the Wolves, Chris Finch, were about the same age. We're both from the East Coast. I'm from Washington, DC.

He's from the Philadelphia area. And we both grew up loving old school NBA. So the Timberwolves were like, hey. You know, Chris Finch is gonna be doing a a media round at the state fair. Would you like to have him on?

Sure. So I chatted with Chris for about three minutes before the state fair show, like, into his first full season. And boom, we just hit it off big time with old school NBA references, Elvin Hayes this, Doctor J that, World Be Free this, George Gervin that. And, so then Chris, you know, asked me first time anybody's ever done this, and he's the head coach of a team that might win an NBA championship. He's like, hey.

You know, I can come on your show every week if you want. Like, hey. I don't even have to get to the account executives to see if we can find money. Or, like, what do we gotta do here? No.

I'll just I'll just come on. So he's been on my radio show pretty much every week during the NBA NBA season, all of his career here. And I love the guy. He's salt of the earth. He's down to earth.

He's a heck of a basketball coach. And I'm just really glad God decided to put us put him here and put us together so we could chat about this wonderful team. That's awesome. So let's back up for a second because the audience that those that listen to this are from all over the world. A lot here locally as well.

One of my teachers, man, Nate Sala. Are are you kidding me with that? When I when I was so I, you know, I I subscribe to you guys via YouTube, and I'll I'll watch whenever God compels me to watch. But I think it might have been two or three guests to go for you guys, Nate Sala. He's one of my teachers, and we've never even met.

Because when God chooses, somebody's going to go through fifty two years of their life without knowing anything about the gospel of Jesus Christ, but always believing in God, always praying the Lord's prayer, and always praying all my life. But, you know, when you're gonna go the first fifty two years having never read the Bible and not going to seminary, well, I mean, the old YouTube machine could be quite powerful when it comes to teachers, and I'm not kidding you with this. I'm not kidding you either. This is very serious. And so I watch a lot of Nate Sala.

I watch you guys a fair amount. Other teachers like Alistair pastor Alistair Begg, John MacArthur, Paul Washer, Tim Keller, Michael Heizer, God rest their souls. Those have been my teachers. And really over the last year and a half, Nate Salla has been part of that mix. So when I saw him so what you gotta do is hit that sub button.

Make sure you hit the bell, the notifications bit, so you always know when to be provoked and inspired. And then hit videos because it shows you all of them. And, and the Nate Sala one, absolutely fantastic. That guy is so smart. He's so biblically smart when it comes to the Bible, not works based stuff, or not really over interpreting for his benefit.

Yeah. So I wanna thank you guys for that. That's he's one of my teachers, man. That's so cool. Yeah.

So, Paul, I was listening to you on the radio as Ben and I are want to do. Mhmm. It's just funny. Sorry. Ben and I have fun because I'll be, like, driving somewhere in the middle of nowhere in I don't know.

Anywhere around the world, and I'll be like, you know, it'd be nice to listen to PA. And so we'll pull out the podcast and listen to you talk about the vikings or whatever. It's like, for us, it's a fun you know, we live a pretty intense missional life and and most of what we do is very serious. I mean, the gospel is is life and death. Right?

But we love for fun listening to you, listening to watching the vikings. But I was listening to you and I text you when it it happened. I heard you talk about your story in a way I'd never heard. You talked about how you weren't born, last name Allen. Alright.

So can you just tell us a little bit about your that that yeah. I wanna hear a little more about that. Okay. 59 years of age, lived all over the world like you guys, but just not as long. Born Paul Webb into a staunch Mormon family in Pocatello, Idaho.

And, so Roger Webb was my father. He worked for the railroad in Pocatello, Idaho. My mom, Shirley Smith, God rest both of their souls. Well, it was Shirley's, it was Shirley Angelino, then Shirley Smith, then Shirley Webb, then Shirley Allen. So, god has permitted a lot of divorce in my life in including my own, which I really wouldn't wish on my worst enemy.

However, you know, knowing the gospel, the Bible, God's will and free will as well as I do now, God permitted that for the righteousness of his son Jesus Christ for some reason, you know, that I can't see now and the purpose may not unveil itself. But, you know, there are bad things that are permitted in people's lives and the end result is the justification of the gospel of Jesus Christ. Amen with that? Okay. So, you know, therefore, I look back at that time and then I look at where we are now and it's easier to put things together for me.

But when we go back to when I was born, you know, I I remember just, you know, like, now now that I'm learning about Mormonism. Okay? So again, when you don't start reading the Bible until five and a half, six years ago, Church religion, man, there's a lot there's a lot of, a lot of ketchup. In fact, you had you had a guest recently on Provoke and Inspire. Might have been named Isaac Davis.

David. Yeah. Just the David disciple. Isaac David? Yeah.

Okay. Right. And, man, it was it was a shorty. So I'm like the one who lays in bed and flips through the shorts, and Paul Washer here makes me depressed. Michael Heizer teaches me about angels.

I got Ben Pierce here teaching about the gospel. I mean, that's my life. But, your guest, when he was talking about his YouTube channel and about the content that he puts out, okay, it that really, really resonated with me because the the reason it resonated with me is because there's so much out there in the podcasting world. And one of you said, is it about recognizing the teaching, of Jesus Christ and subsequently shared through the host of the podcast? Or is it amount or is it for a lot of people about the amount of subscriptions they get?

And there's a lot of money to be made on those subs. Okay? Now working with the National Football League team, I know that because some of the touchdown calls will go out on on Twitter, Instagram, YouTube, TikTok, and all that. And I didn't realize this until within the last year. YouTube will pay money.

Envelope. Yeah. There you go. I didn't get that. Okay.

Well, God bless people who are doing that. Okay. That's a form, not only of sharing the gospel to all nations, but it's also a job. So I'm on board with that. But there are so many out there.

And and when you're seeking teachers the way I am, strictly of the Bible. And and I'll come across like this is with all due respect, I don't wanna get ripped on this guy's podcast. There's this really loud guy named Sam Shamoon. Are you familiar? Okay.

Well, he is one of the, if not the smartest theologians when it comes to the bible and the Quran that I've ever come across in my life. He's so loud. And when he's debating with a Muslim, it's like, okay, your prophet Mohammed is this, bad word, and I'm about ready to put you six feet under. And then he will. He's right.

But is that the greater good? But it is. But is it? Mhmm. So I got that that give and take, that tug of war for a Christian that Isaac, your guest, was sharing about the the line of delineation between doing the right thing and sharing while recognizing, yes, I'd like to profit off this.

Yes, I would like to make a living doing this. And and does it require being allowed to do it Yeah. And tearing other people down to do it? And once again, this cat Sam, I watch him a lot, man. He's one of my teachers.

And and I will go back and he'll say things and I'll write them down. I'll corroborate it with the Bible or with the Quran, whether it's a Hadith or whether it's actually in the Quran. And he's dead right. So, hey. My man's right.

Yeah. But is he? Yeah. By treating it How like that. Yeah.

Right. You know? And and so that really from from from a story standpoint, going back to Paul Webb, third divorce from my mom, dad, Ken Allen, changes my name to Paul Allen. And, you know, then I'm all over the country calling races. I lived in The Philippines for a year and a half.

I lived in Hawaii Hawaii for six months. And, really the common thread there all along was everybody from my life for decades gone by have always told me, yeah, God was very important to you. Yes. Praying was always very important to you, Paul. Even though I had no idea God was man on earth in the shape of Jesus Christ and what goes into getting to heaven as the gospel of Jesus teaches.

That just happened five, six and a half years ago. Wow. Yeah. The it's interesting you mentioned that conversation I had with the daily disciple. I think what part of the motivation in that question I've been asking that to a lot of these sort of YouTube influencers and content creators is that there was a video that came out from a guy named Rhett.

You know, Rhett and Link. Mhmm. Okay. So Not familiar. He big time creator, brilliant storyteller.

What's the name? His name's Rhett McLaughlin. Okay. McLaughlin McLaughlin, something like that. Yeah.

Anyway, grew up strong evangelical Christian, and has since deconstructed from his faith and no longer called Walked away. From God. Okay. And he has this interview with an another YouTuber, Alex O'Connor. Might sound familiar.

Okay. Quite familiar. Yeah. Brilliant. British accent?

Yeah. Brilliant. Fantastic. Yeah. And sure.

Figure out if he's an atheist or a Christian. No one can. I know. You know what I mean though. Right?

He's super smart and biting, but I'm like, he's on the team. Oh, wait. No. He's not. Yeah.

It looks like Jordan Peterson. Same same vibe. Yeah. So he says something in the first twenty minutes of that video with Alex and he says, I know what I'm about to do for the next hour is gonna give all of these Christian YouTubers exactly what they want. I'm gonna feed up this content that they're all gonna, you know, like sharks in the water.

They're gonna react to because it's a big thing. Right? It's that's how you get the subs. That's how you get the views. You find the cultural moments and you attach your commentary to it.

You get it high on the listing and and so people find it and search. And I I I said to him, I said, how do we as as people in the the space that God has called us to, just like you have a space that God has called you to, how do we not let the wrong horse pull the cart? How do we how do we stay faithful to what Jesus the wrong horse. No. That's not no.

Seriously. I'm I'm being serious here because if you if you have Catholics Yeah. Or maybe Baptists or certainly Muslims or Jews or Mormons or Easter those of the Eastern religion variety watching, well, that's their life. Sure. That that's their life when it comes to getting to heaven and Right.

That's not our lives. Right? Right. I I guess what I mean specifically is that I feel like a lot of these content creators start out with an intention to tell people about Jesus, to communicate the gospel, to hear from God. What is it like a pastor?

Like, what is it you want me to say to these people Mhmm. Through this medium? Mhmm. But what ends up happening is because of the metrics and the way that the system works, they become slaves to the algorithm Mhmm. Not to the message they felt Jesus called them to communicate.

And they all wrestle with this. Right. And I think in our own way, in our own context, we have our own fight with that. Right? What is successful in the eyes of the world And what is Jesus calling me to do in that world?

And what's that going to cost me? I think that's a huge Wow. That's fantastic. Calling for all of us. I've never heard anybody describe it like that.

And I'm gonna make it analogous to the life God has chosen I get to lead. Yeah. Okay? Yep. Yeah.

So no flex, but call, Minnesota Vikings play by play on the radio into my twenty fourth year. It's my first play by play job at any level. I auditioned for it and won. God. Racetrack announcer, thirty two years.

And they're racing on the Provoke and Inspire podcast. I auditioned for that job in '93, Northern California, and God had me win even though I never had done it. Only had races in a tape recorder. The nine to noon show at KFAN is my first radio show, period. I mean, I was a sports update guy and God decided, you know, thirty some odd years ago, I need him in this state, I need him to garner this following, and I need him to gain a certain degree of eloquence with the speaking ability and confidence.

Because he's always believed in me, but he knew he was gonna show me his son at 52, and I didn't. Okay. So a lot of bad times along the way where, I mean, like, really? I'm not in jail? Holy cow.

Father, please keep me within your bubble of love and and protect me from avarice and and angst and and anxiety and whatever problems I'm creating here. And by the way, if it works completely the wrong way, it's my fault. I'm never gonna stop loving you. Amen. So those would be like prayers I would have all my life, man.

You know, my twenties, my thirties, and and part of my forties. So with what you're saying, God chose that I get to live a public life and also have a burning desire I'm all over your podcast, by the way. Preston, the guy in the car. Preston Perry? Yeah.

Preston Perry. Talking about his wife Oh, yeah. And his wife, the bible teacher. Jackie Hill Perry. There we go.

And she's like, she just loves to teach and it's all she thinks about and desires. Hey. Now it's gone from all I seek is learning and and and finding ways to take like, the gospel of Matthew chapter five verse 13, you are salt of the earth. You, Christians, are, not should be, are salt preserving what's good. Of the earth, our world is in decay.

Things like that. That's what I live to do, find things like that and make them analogous or metaphorical to 2025. So she's me and I'm her, but she's just farther ahead, than me because she's known about it longer. So, yeah, I live for that now when I speak, you know, which God has decided over the last three years, there are going to be a fair amount of speaking engagements that have popped up. Fundraisers at places like New Life Academy, South West Christian High School.

I have one coming up at Avail Academy in Edina. I'm really excited about my kids' school. Is it really? My boy and two girls well, one girl and girl to be coming there. So how god put this together?

Kevin O'Connell, coach of the Minnesota Vikings. He goes there. Yeah. Alright. His kids go there.

So they asked me, he and his wife, Leah, will you m c no. Excuse me. Will you interview Kevin? This is about a month and a half ago at, like, a preview for a fundraiser. So I did, and I sat with them, and then I met Ross Doma.

I believe he runs the school or whatever. An email from him in? I don't know where to go. We've become friends, and they asked me to emcee a fundraiser they have coming up in October. So God has things working that way for me.

Now here's the rub off what you said. It's not a YouTube, hey, hit the sub button, hit the bell notifications this, and, Ben Pierce that. It's not that. It's it's radio and it's these jobs that everybody can know about in my life when it comes to the willingness, the desire, and the burning passion to share the gospel of Jesus Christ. Yeah.

Not everybody knows that. So when I speak, whether it's a hundred or a thousand, I come into it recognizing I it's it whatever image people have of me, it's I can't care about that. Okay? Because even if I mess up a a passage or a verse, well, it one of the epistles, the apostle Paul teaches that when you're called to do this, you do it. You you do it.

And if you mess anything up, the holy spirit's gonna handle it for you. It just very loose paraphrasing there. You know what I mean? So I don't trip out on that. What I trip out on a little bit is I don't want one person to leave thinking, oh, this is great.

He gets to be like a new age Joe Buck and he gets to be Billy Graham. Boy, aren't you special. You know? So therefore, I I walk that line when I speak with people either individually or in larger crowds. And it's the same with what you're talking about with the podcasting because I come into it for one reason, which I'm still into it for, likewise for you guys.

Yeah. But it is fair to, for me, wonder, father, I know I'm on your schedule, not mine. Where are the opportunities? I pine to do this. Father, we're sharing the gospel.

We're trying to bring more people to you so fewer burn. You know, here are the here's the subscription number. Why does it stay here? Yeah. You know?

So now do I gotta get a little louder? Do do I have to start ripping weird garments and secret handshakes and do it loudly and make them shorts? Because the subscriptions will go up. Do I have to remind my Jewish friends there's more after Malachi? Do I have to get into truly some things Mohammed believed in the Quran?

And the fact that he's not on the same level as Jesus Christ and Allah is not God? Do I have to start doing that and getting loud? Because if you do, whatever your subscription number is is gonna go up exponentially, and you're gonna fill your pockets. But are you filling your pockets while emptying your soul? That right there is the rub.

Yeah. That is that is so profound. I was it's this tension between obedience and in the right sense of the word ambition, in the sense of the word of, like, wanting to make the most of my life. I It's natural. It's totally natural.

And I I I know you. But you guys struggle, man. I I can feel it. And I do too. You can feel it with me.

We battle. Totally. We battle and okay. They're sin. And, yeah, I'm going to heaven.

And, yeah, you are too. Well, what do you mean? Well, we can we can talk about it. But it's if you're a Christian, you know, with all due respect, if you're a Christian and you're not feeling a struggle, that ain't right. Mhmm.

That's a Corinthians coffee cup Christian life. And that ain't how it is. And I have such a high level of respect and recognition for what the world might have been like two and three thousand years ago. You know? And if if you can't wrap your minds around that, what the what what give us this day our daily bread.

They didn't have any food. Yeah. They were wailing and crying and whining. Please, please, please. I haven't eaten in five days, man.

Give us this day our daily bread. Yeah. So to wrap your minds around that makes it easier, I think, to share now. But then there's this struggle we're talking about. Yeah.

It's always there. Yeah. No. It's there every second of the day. It is.

Be and the and that's not to say, like, you know, we're we're walking in the light of martyrdom. Maybe we are. But that we're always miserable. We always feel like we're letting down God. We're all we always feel like we're compromising the Christian that we believe we are.

That's so not right. No. Be because it's it's when it comes to the devil, who's very real, and like I said earlier, Revelation 12, when Archangel Michael threw the devil, Lucifer, out of heaven, he, dragon's tail swept and a third of the stars fallen angels, I believe, came down with him. Well, he gave the world to the devil right there. Basically saying you're only going to go as far with my children as I let you.

See Job. You know, because because the the devil's, threat there, paraphrasing, basically was, okay. Well, I can't win here. So I'm gonna torment your creation the rest of existence. Yeah.

The paraphrased answer basically is I know, but you're only gonna go as far as I let you. Well, welcome to 2025. Because of course, the devil of course, the devil doesn't want us to believe in God. Of course, he doesn't want us to believe in Jesus Christ. He wants us to be low hanging fruit like the atheist where he doesn't even have to pay attention to him, that person.

They're not even on the devil's radar. We are. So therefore, if you look at it like that, of course, he doesn't want those two things to happen, but that's what everybody sees first. I don't. What he wants, what I believe the devil wants from biblical teaching and just living this life the last six years and reflecting on the previous fifty two, is he wants us to feel such shame with our sins.

It limits our productivity. Yeah. Now all of a sudden, the amount of subscribers I have for provoke and inspire, I've been doing this a long time, man. I'm just gonna lay off it for five months. Paul, I'm gonna stop, you know, sending resumes.

And and yeah. This is Paul Allen who calls Vikings games. I'd also like to do this at your church or at your Christian high school. Well, I'm just, you know, that's I'm tired, you know. So the devil wants to limit our productivity Yeah.

By carrying that shame of sin. Well, that's a battle, man. That's a battle every single day. It's a battle, and and I think that in all of it, whether we fall on the side of apathy or whether we're crushed under shame or whether we're being ambitious in a human sense, I think the root problem for all of it is being disconnected from the vine. Like, I think it is so profound when you recognize that all of it needs to be from wholeness, not for it.

And it is such a crucial distinction there. I don't know if you do this. I do this all the time. I'll read scripture and for some reason, I'll always stop at a certain point and not read on. Yeah.

And the vine and the branches is I I think I pray that almost more than anything else. That's nice. Like, let me stay connected to the vine. That's that whole from wholeness not for wholeness. Then I'm not striving out of human ambition or being, like I said, crushed under shame.

But what was so fascinating, if you read in verse eight, it says, or seven, it says, if you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish Yeah. And it will be done for you. Then it says in verse eight, this is my father's glory that you bear much fruit showing yourself to be my disciples. Mhmm. And I don't know why I hadn't read seven and eight in so long, but what's so interesting about that paradox is that what God requires of you and me and and all of us is this ongoing continued cultivation of intimacy with him.

Yeah. But then that as it's as your basis, he wants bold, creative Yes. I I read in that a degree of a dad who's not who's saying now go for it. Yeah. Like, I'm with you.

Like, let let's so much, man. Do you know what I'm saying? Like, the way I look at my time I met you guys, man, Aaron specifically, I met him. I just love him. Come on, man.

Just No. Anyway, but you know what? Wait. Wait. While we're there, which one is cooler between Ben and I?

Well, while I watched a lot of those videos Okay. That he does more than you. Oh, okay. Alright. Fine.

So are we talking about abiding? I don't just you just you just who just based on legs now. Okay. You're gonna undercut my whole point for this exercise. Let me tell you why.

Because, like, when I speak, let's say at a church, and I put together you said the word obedience. So at New Life Academy in Woodbury, recently, Crown College in Saint Bonifaceus about two and a half months ago, the the the task that that that they put on me was we would like you to speak on abiding in the word of God. Alright? Now off what you just said and you just ran through the tangential gamut that we all do. We all do.

It's like this. Yes, this. No. Sorry. Wow.

I you already know what's happening. Why did I say I'm sorry? It just everything that goes on is really the way abiding in the word of God, you know, off you're talking about the vine where our the Christian vine, I don't believe ever is going to become dry and have limbs that you can just snap off because it's dead unless God chooses he wants it that way. Okay? So I'm I'm 10 of 10 God's will.

I'm zero of 10 free will when it comes to free will leading to good. Okay? I think a lot of free will that's executed in the world is evil. And there's nothing evil about God's will because of again, as the Bible teaches, if if he permits something that is bad, at the end of time, it's going to answer its own question as to why the righteousness of Jesus Christ was glorified in that ugly awful moment. Amen?

To that? So when I speak on things like that or abiding, in the word of God, somebody will be like, you know, wow. I mean, that that that was a nice preach. Okay? I never ever say I'm preaching.

Simply because of, like, people like you guys, ma'am. I don't know how old you guys are. But you and your family have put thirty some odd years into this. You've put, so much more time into this. And what's god do with me?

Protects me for twenty five, thirty years from awful, awful, awful sin, back in my thirties, protects me in his bubble of love for whatever the reason. Well, not whatever the reason, moments like this. And then at age 52, after I'm a quarter century into microphone related jobs where people wanna meet me in the first place to talk football, he drops me into this evangelical world. And he says, and and your study habits are gonna be fine, Paul. Your work ethic's fine in the secular.

It's gonna require a lot of work here, which I've put in, and I really thoroughly enjoy it. But he dropped that that's why, you know, when it comes to share the gospel to all nations. With with some friends in my life, you know, if if I know their lives and kinda like what they do either with me or mutual friends and and I don't feel, you know, they're talking about Christ enough or they're they're you know, there's an opening right there, an organic opening, gone in and sees it. That's what the Bible teaches us to do. And maybe they don't.

Very hard for me to eyeball anybody and say, you gotta do a better job. First of all, it's not my job to say that, but I can make recommendations. It's hard for me to say that because of how easy to a certain extent God made it for me. And I wrestle with that. So, you know, when it comes to the twisting of the mind that that Ben just shared, like when I speak on abiding in the word of God, which is just think about that sentence.

To abide in the word of God. Are you kidding me? I mean, to the word of God, that's ridiculous if we as human beings think we can. Mhmm. But we do.

Because the way I see it biblically, either via first John or or the gospels, is abiding in the word of God is one thing and one thing only. It's believing in what he teaches about his son. That's it. That's abiding. Okay?

To adhere, to follow. Abiding is believing without the son, you don't have the father. And without the father, you don't have the son. And the Holy Spirit is guiding us now, so we believe in the trinity. We're trinitarians.

And because of that, we're going to heaven. Now let's get into sin and repentance and confession and talking to God and prayer. Now let's get into sharing, the layering. That's the obedience. Mhmm.

See, and I think too many people flip it. And they think because they're not obedient, they're not abiding. And then they beat themselves up. You know, whether it's my Catholic friends or those who are religious, which we're not. They beat themselves up so much, it makes me feel bad.

You know, it's it's when you abide in the word of God the way I described it, the obedience comes from him. And the minute we start thinking that we are omnipresent, smart, instinctive, fearless, or prescient enough to believe that we can execute his plan without him, we've then become so arrogant that honestly, we might wanna get in prayer and rethink the whole thing and have him just reset us. You know, there are just too many people who mix up obedience and abiding. Yeah. And that's kinda what I was getting from what you were saying.

Well, and we also cut ourselves off from the thing that our our hearts and souls long for most, which is to be in relationship with the one that made us. Right. So that the But that's constant. It is. And the obedience and the the things he then has us do are extensions of that Yeah.

That more primary function Right. That that is the when you do that detached from that, it just becomes another sort of fruitless human endeavor. It just becomes another thing. Correct me if I'm wrong because you guys know more about it than me, man. And you guys are two of my teachers, and have been ever since I met you.

It's if there's a drift, okay, and we're not reading the bible and maybe we were volunteering at church or working with the kids at church or what, and we backed off, we're overwhelmed, we're not reading the bible, we're not listening to Provoke and Inspire or Nate Soller or John MacArthur or Paul. We just drifted and backed off. That's God's choice. That's not our choice. That that no.

It's there there is no head shake. I'm sorry, with all due respect. It's God's will. It's he gives us free will. We can execute it, but he has to permit it.

Well, now you're I mean, that's a whole fun conversation we could get into because I don't know if we even want to. The soteriology? Well, but what I'm saying is don't beat yourself up. Well, here here here here's the Think of pharaoh. I think the reason you don't build beat yourself up is because there's nothing you can do, good or bad, to change God's love for you.

Right. That God's love for you is unconditional. That concept of unconditional love for you is the basis for my identity. Agreed. It's the basis for my sense of security and and why, I don't put my identity and hope in what I accomplish or what I do or how good I am.

Yeah. But Yeah. He god has designed us for a love relationship with him. And by definition, that means I have the the choice to reject him or to walk away from him and face the consequences thereof. But you would have to define what is walking away.

Well, they Adrift is not walking away. Walking away is saying, I do not believe in this. Right. No doubt. No doubt.

I'm not saying that you I'm saying, yeah, we but where do we go with this? But the the point is the point is we do have, we have a we can respond to God's love, and and we can make choices that and and you're always making a choice. And and the absence of a choice is a choice as well to either walk closer to God or to walk away. And and I don't mean that in a salvific sense. In the sense you mean.

I mean that in a intimacy with him, to walk in his will. The reason that I that I have a choice to follow God and to follow his ways is not because it means that I'm gonna be saved or, it's because he's a good father that loves me, and he he wants good things for me, and he designed me to live in a way so that I'll thrive. So when I see the goodness of God and I respond to his love by saying, god, I want to obey you. Mhmm. I want to do things your way.

It is a response. Yeah. It is a choice I have. And and when I choose to walk away from his will, then I face the consequences of that. But he's a good father that's waiting for me to return.

Prodigal prodigal son illustration comes to mind. And and I think that's Yeah. You're right. I think that was beautiful, by the way. And, again, I think it's the for it's it's the from, not for wholeness.

That's big. Distinction is is massive for me because I mean it in a sense that you're almost playing with house money. Like, God's when God's love for you is is so profound. I mean, you have kids. Right?

When you look when I look at my boy and my girl's like, I as a human as a very flawed human father, there's nothing they can do. I will love them forever. And but I also know better than them. Right? And so I I know and again, to to I don't wanna overextend the illustration, but I know things they shouldn't eat and should eat.

I know roads they should play on and roads they shouldn't. I know. And as a dad, I'm desperate for them to to listen to me because I'm wiser than they are and I know what's good for them. And I think so many people to to maybe extend this outside of the Christian bubble for a minute to the non Christian bubble, I think so many people have this religious conception of God that he has these arbitrary set of rules Yeah. That he's angry and if you don't follow him, you're gonna burn.

And to me, missing in that picture is this beautiful vision of a father that loves you in a culture where there's so many absent, like, so many voids of fatherlessness. Right? Mhmm. And this vision that there's a father that loves you. I I will use that illustration when I'm talking to people and they can see the emotions in my eyes when I'm talking about my kids and what I would do for them.

Mhmm. And for a generation, especially where, what, over half kids are born out of wedlock Mhmm. So many problems with people not having fathers and and to be able to say to them, God's love for you is unconditional and his design for you is for your good. It it when when that light bulb goes on, when God opens up their eyes to understand that Yeah. It it is profound.

And I I think but part of it is I didn't frame it the right way. No. The way I said it to you. And now I know that from what you guys are teaching me here. Yeah.

And again, to be to be honest though, this starts with me internalizing that for myself. Because the proclivity of the human heart is to start with that intimacy and then drift towards self righteousness. Mhmm. Drift towards workspace where we're like, it started out so pure and innocent, but then in time, I started to think, yeah, God's love is there for me, but I better do x y and z. Mhmm.

Or if I'm not seeing this kind of fruit or these kinds of things Yeah. Then, you know, you start to the human heart wants to add things to God's grace. Right. And so we have to have that pruning process to continue to be like, no. No.

I gotta strip these things away. It's it's I'm a branch. Yeah. And that might be humbling for us to hear. That's perfect.

That's perfect. I wanna ask you something because I think Ben's point about this, we can do the because what I think we're all struggling with is human ambition, like and wanting to do things, but then who am I doing it for? For my glory or for God's glory? Yeah. And and I'd say some things in your heart and how God has been moving on your heart that's I'm so impressed with and how you give God glory.

Yeah. And and I just think that that's been such a cool thing to witness from from our vantage point. And I think about things and and my point is, like, when God you said five, six years ago, you you you had this this moment where you really found Jesus. Right? Well, from that space of wholeness, you've now all of a sudden in these last five, six years had a level of national prominence that you've never had before.

Unbelievable. And and I think what it is. I mean, for the for those of you that listen to the audience that don't know, I mean, Paul's had some viral calls. Like, I remember the the the Bills game That was the best. Which was wild and, like, LeBron James tweeted him.

But here's what I think. God, it can trust you with that platform because he's done something in your heart so that it's your will. You be glorified God. And and when Ben talks about this sense of he it's not for wholeness. If you were looking for that Yeah.

That that that adoration, that glory to fill you, I mean that you know, that glory lasts for a second. You need the next tweet. Right? It'd be the next viral video. But so I think God has given that to you because you have that radical encounter with Jesus and you give him the glory.

And so I just think that's been a cool thing for us to observe, and I think that's what Ben is saying. It's one of the nicest things anybody's ever said to me. So thank you. That that I think it was 2022, '20 '20 '3, the Bills game. That, or was it 2024?

It was the year that they won all the games. It couldn't have been four. It was Four we lost to the Rams. It was the year we lost the Giants. The year before was the Dobbs experience that had an expiration date.

The when we lost the when we lost the Jones and the Giants that year. Yeah. It, it it's very interesting you bring up that moment, with the Buffalo Bills game. It just not to bore your audience, but, you know, I said it earlier, but after the Vikings win, their social media department will put out a there's a camera in the booth, a touchdown call from the booth. So you see a bunch of people and you see animated stuff, and it's really cool.

Well, there was there was so much stuff in that Bills game that Zach Royce with the Vikings, a dear friend of mine, decided I'm gonna put a two and a half minute bid out there with all of it. And, you know, it it when they put it out, the Pat McAfee show and Barstool and some really big social media bits picked up on it and really, really started praising me. Now when that when that took place that Wednesday after the game, I mean, I sat in the Eden Prairie parking lot outside of Jerry's Supermarket for about about an hour by myself, watching the Twitter numbers grow, watching all of this unbelievable adulation come my way. I was so uncomfortable with it. And and why I was uncomfortable with it is because and and I'm I'm gonna concede that that I looked at it the wrong way, where I'm like, you've just it's father, you've given me so much with with these cool jobs and the ability to speak to people and minister to people and learn your word and and be authentic with it and just love it.

It's just like I'm not this is making me uncomfortable, this type of attention I'm getting. So then I went home and, I I spoke very negatively to somebody with whom I live. Basically, like, what are we doing here? Look what God's doing right now. Why aren't we calling Teen Challenge?

Why aren't we calling the Special Olympics? Why aren't we setting up a mission trip to Haiti? Or whatever. Why why aren't we u utilizing what God's putting in front of us by growing this following exponentially and acting on it right now? Well, I apologized.

I repented when I went to sleep. It was awful. I was just stupid. And I was looking at it from a workspace standpoint of what I could do to pay somebody back, which is impossible. It's his love for us, not our love for him.

And then I woke up the next morning at four, four thirty, opened the computer, went to Twitter, and there was that tweet from LeBron James. So I've edited it out to make sure it was really him and it wasn't an imposter, and he was like Paul Allen's a national treasure. Yeah. Which maybe with that job, some think I am, but I'm not a national treasure. And I'm not I'm not Joe Q Christian who is like, well, then God told me and then I heard this or no.

I'm not that guy. I sat back and I had the most peaceful feeling I've ever had in my life. And I'm not a never or never guy. And the Holy Spirit had to have just taken over right there and basically looked at it like this. Paul, we've talked about this before.

It's my schedule, not yours. Mhmm. So all of these things that you're begging for, they're gonna come when I want them to come. We've talked about it before. Stop.

And the only way we can impact more people when it comes to the kingdom of God through the gospel of Jesus Christ is to grow the following. And build continue to build the confidence. Trust me, I got you, man. And I just laid back and I'm like, this is beautiful. It's if we wanna look at it from an earthly job standpoint, you know, I was 57 56, 50 seven at that time.

Normally, that far into microphone related careers, your people are grasping and clutching and grabbing to hold on. Just waiting for for the next person to who's gonna make less than them and do more than them to kinda slide through and take the job. Well, the way I looked at it was, god chose to grow my following and have my star reascend in those microphone related jobs nearly thirty years into it. Why? It's for moments like this.

It's for a continued desire to want to learn, to concede I'm wrong, to be vulnerable that way. Aaron put me in a box six feet under the earth off the way I phrased something. I love that. I don't even look at it as rebuking. It was just teaching, and I still crave to be taught.

But the way I looked at it was, I mean, I'm just overwhelmed that you've decided to grow my following and do this with whatever star I have here on earth that people, that people deem and grow it. Yeah. It's it's unbelievable. And I but I've seen you on your public platform be bold and clear and open about Jesus and and not ashamed and give him the glory. And I think that's why he's trusted you with it.

It. Correct. You know? And and It's hard for me to ask. We're all figuring this out.

Right. And we're all walking it out and learning as we go. It's that posture of humility, the posture of God. This is all yours. You you give it and you take it away, but it's all yours.

Mhmm. And I think he I think that's genuinely your heart. Well, that's why I said off what Ben said, I said to you, I'm like, okay. Well, that that that branch hasn't died. It's not dying.

God has chosen this this well, book of Romans. Foreknowledge leads to calling, leads to justification, leads to glorification. Foreknowledge is his. The calling is us, is this. Justification, well, that that's where we start to delineate and we start to, you you know, figure out what justification is.

But it can be justified if I say that if I believe in predestination and that everything he has laid out already is foretold with him, with us. That's part of your plan, man. And he permitted it. So stop beating yourself up so hard like you're like everything is a zero of 10. It might have gone down to a four from a seven.

But who's to even say how can we even say it's a four? Because to God, it's a point two. Yeah. So that's why I'm saying, really? You really think that you can abide in the word of God from an obedient standpoint and say, yes.

I do that. No. You don't. You You see what I'm saying? So that's why I said what I said.

We're with you. Yeah. And in the sense that we can't earn it. We can't make it happen. So Yeah.

No. And I I just for me, this is all too complicated if it depends on me. Like It's impossible. To be able to navigate this and navigate my own confusion and my own selfish ambition and my own warped sense of what success looks like, which is why there is such profound simplicity. I know I keep harping on this, but there's such a profound simplicity in the idea that when I recognize that the thing I'm gonna be the thing I'm gonna have no regrets about in the end of my life is gonna be intimacy with Jesus.

It's gonna be a the thing that nobody will see. The thing that nobody will it's not gonna end up probably on any tweets. It's just did I make my life about knowing and loving Jesus? Right. And the the beauty of that, the the trick in that is that when you make your life about that, then he helps you navigate the rest of it.

Yes. You know, and it's the it's the Augustine ordering of your loves thing. And so much of the conversations I'm having with these guys and I feel like we're having right here is this this fear and consternation about, am I doing it the right way and am I getting enough or is it too much or am I in there? Am I mixing it up with my own selfish ambition? The beautiful thing is is I and I had this profound moment last week.

I'm out walking by my kid's school and I just get the sense of, like, so much gratitude that I have this anchoring truth. Right? Like Big guy. I get to come back to this place and it's this beautiful, simple thing where I'm like Yeah. God's just saying, I just want this.

The rest of this stuff's cool. Mhmm. We'll we'll take care of that stuff. I'll check your motives if they're off. I will I will guide you if you got off track.

We're Yep. I got it. I got it. This is what I covet. Right?

And so I'm in that moment and it's so beautiful and I'm When you say this, you mean believing in the teachings about yourself? I mean I mean the cultivation of a deep real friendship with one who may make it. Yeah. I think there's a difference between belief and relationship. Yeah.

You know you know how the word speaks that even the demons believe. Yeah. Right? So the know the knowledge of the truth, the even the belief in the truth is distinct from a relationship with my creator. Agreed.

And I I think we all feel it, Blaine. Very fast. Right? In the context of the human relationship, like, you know that feeling. Like, you're with your kids or you're with a friend and there's nothing being accomplished, but there is this this sense of, like, a deep satisfaction in that moment.

And it doesn't always happen. That's why I think there's the discipline in the relationship. Sure. Right? There's no the quality time is a myth.

It's quantity time. It's like I gotta get in front of God, and there's days when I'm distracted and I'm tired. But then there are those moments. And you have those with friends, right, or with, And it's just beautiful. Like I have this vivid picture of being with a bunch of high school buddies when many years after we graduated and we're all sitting up on this rooftop at my house in New Zealand.

I know. Lucky me. Looking out over the ocean. Yeah. And we're just we're talking about funny stories of high school days and I just still can taste the richness of that relationship.

It was like it was there was no means to an end. It was an end and of itself. And I think that's a foreshadowing of vision because we're image bearers of God. Right? It's that rich intimacy with Jesus that fills our soul in a way that nothing else can.

And when we get the order right, like Augustine talks about Yeah. Explain that. Well, you know, Augustine talks about it's it's not that you should love your wife. It's not love your wife or not love your kids or not love your job. It's that you should not love them more than God.

Right. Like, if I love my wife more than God, I don't love her well. Right. Because I put all these messianic expectations on her she can't live up to. To love her well, I need to love God more.

To love my job well, I need to love my wife more than my job and my wife less than God. It sounds weird, but it's this ordering. When you get that order right, and that takes continuous cultivation, then I think he wants you to go for broke in these other areas in their proper place. But but see, when I talk about abiding and or obedience and, you know, well, define whatever I said earlier. Define deeply rooted love or whatever.

I mean, it I'm inquisitive like that. Yeah. Because there are Christians so many Christians, whether I watch them, I see them preach live or it's right here, whatever. Make these bold statements, okay, that require well, what does that even mean? Yeah.

You see what I'm saying? Where it it's it's the low hanging fruit of the Bible where it's like, well, that's great. Ask and I shall receive, and I haven't gotten in three months. Okay. Well, that's that's baseline for foolishness and not recognizing that there's context and things that need to be unpacked.

But but the way the way you just laid that out, I think if there are non Christians or those who are here for whatever the reason or maybe they're Christians, but it's the stereotypical go to church once a week, pray whatever, not box checking. It's hard to explain. Yeah. But But you know what I mean. We get it.

Well, see, I think the way you just put that discourages people. And that's with all due respect. Sure. And and the reason I say that because what you said is right, 10 of 10, and it was beautiful the way you laid that out. But it's I took a class, man, four, four and a half years ago on systematic theology.

Now 80%, ninety % of the 13 classes, no idea what was happening there. But god had me leave it with one or two things every single time that I would write down and it would stick and it would stick for the rest of my life. And whether people are what would it be? Calvinists or whatever, however they would look at what I'm about to say, God has me believing wholeheartedly, 100% in my heart, that what happened to my life five and a half, six years ago is known as an effectual calling. Okay?

An effectual calling. And it gets into predestination and all that. Yeah. That that's what I it's not just, okay, that's the answer. What's next?

No. I firmly believe after studying it, that's what happened to my life. That's what he chose to do with me at that time. But if you talk to people about it, well, I've never had an effectual calling. Well, I've never had that deep rich feeling where I taste, whatever the kiwi tasted like in, New Zealand Forty Years ago.

I've never had that. You see, that's the discouraging part. But here's where people here's where people are wrong. How do you know you haven't had the calling? Because to say you haven't makes you God.

And and who's to say you haven't savored the succulent remembrance of the taste of that kiwi Right. When you were hanging out with your favorite kangaroos and koalas. Sure. Who's to say you haven't had it? Just because you didn't recognize it doesn't mean you haven't had it.

And it's the plain god part Sure. That people you know, I have conversations with people about this when it comes to speaking in tongues, when it comes to the 18 biblical gifts. And if I have the audacity to say, alright. Well, I read it. I've studied it.

I get Peter with the Jews. Excuse me. I get Paul with the Jews. I get Paul with the Greeks. I get the dialect.

That ain't it. That that what I'm seeing here or hearing, that ain't this. Sure. I mean, I just get savaged if I say that. And it's it's it's Corinthians 14 this, and and you don't get this.

And and I don't care what you do when you pray, man. We're talking about people here not understanding this gibberish that you're that you're putting out there, and there's no translator. Right. Okay. So I'm saying the way I look at it ain't right.

But that doesn't make me God. It makes the person God who's like, no. You don't get it because I'm speaking in tongues and this person is being healed. Right. Yeah.

You see what I'm saying? So it kinda plays into I don't want to discourage people and let them think because for whatever the reason, God has not had them put in as much time into it as the Pierce family or me over the last six years. I don't wanna discourage people because that's not the only way to skin this proverbial cat. Yeah. It's it's your calling is your calling, and it might be one or two days a week working in a library, holding a little kid's hand who has so much bad going on at home that he's afraid to share, and you're pull and God has you pulling it out of it through him.

And but you're not recognizing it. Yeah. So let's not shortchange how God works. Amen. And let's not put so much pressure on ourselves that if we think the vine has been on a drift or whatever's been on a drift and we're making some mistakes and, yeah, we're making mistakes.

Yeah. Ever since Adam and Eve, we're incapable of not making mistakes. So what do we do with it and from it and teach from it? And how do we get out of it? Yeah.

So that that's why I said, you know, if there are people watching who are on the fence or maybe don't feel like they're doing enough, I bet you what you said discourage them. But it shouldn't. Only if they misunderstand. Because I I think for me, the baseline of this again is a foundation of God's unconditional love. It it's not meritorious.

No. You're right. In the same way that that the analogy of, you know, my kids, they cannot earn my love. That said, I want to be in relationship with them. Yeah.

And but I don't wanna force that because to force that would make them robots. So I want you prove it's a two sided relationship? You see, when explaining the gospel to people and, like, when people and and the answer you're gonna give me, I can see it on your countenance right now. It's a plus. And guess what?

The student is here to learn. So the the subs will go wherever they're supposed to go because of the jobs God gave me, but the student is here to learn. And and what I mean by by what I just said when it comes to the two way side of it, you know, people are going to be like, well, I can't hear it. I can't see it. I can't touch it.

I feel weird when I pray because I feel like I'm talking to myself. And all of a sudden my car bills higher. And the job that I got, I I didn't get the bonus. So they're gonna bring it back to themselves. And they're gonna wonder, well, this other side of the two two sided relationship, the love you're talking about, what's so great about the other side?

Yeah. Well, again, I I would say even in a lot of what you just said, there's a there's a faulty assumption about what the outcome of your relationship with Jesus looks like, which is not no car bills and receiving a certain kind of form of communication based on prior expectations. I I think that there is an act of faith in it. Yeah. Right?

And I think this gets into a whole another subject, but in terms of the idea that God is hidden or he's far from us, as you said, I can't taste, touch, or see, or whatever. Yeah. My firm belief is that God is I think if God revealed himself to such a degree that we could not resist. In other words, you know, the atheist won't don't deny it. Better phrase.

Yep. That's right there. The atheist says, you know, if you would write I am God in the sky, I I think that that would that would create reluctant compliance. Yes. I think God That's why he didn't start with that's why the Garden of Eden.

Yeah. I I can look at that. He wants us to seek him, but for those who seek him, they will find him. Yes. I truly believe that.

And and it will not necessarily look how the world says it will look, and it will certainly not make life easy. Jesus said, in this world, you will have trouble. Mhmm. But I have overcome this world. Right?

So this this sort of superficial notion of Christianity that come to him, he'll speak to you in a certain way and then solve all your problems. Well, that's like a weird prosperity notion of the gospel that we we don't agree with. That's not the way life works. But I guess for me, it levels the playing field because I think there's something built into the human heart, the the bad part of the human heart that wants to put everything into us versus them categories. In, out, you know, religious, you know, the Pharisee, the Gentile.

It it wants to create division. And to me, what Jesus came is to break those divisions down. Yeah. And to say that, to all those that are thirsty, I have water that will satiate you everlasting. And and and so it's not discouraging in the sense that do it to a certain degree and you will be satisfied.

It's the it's the availability and the offering that is universal and ubiquitous that makes it not discouraging. It makes it an invitation. Yep. That our pride still, I think, ultimately becomes the greatest barrier to accepting that invitation. Root of all evil.

Yeah. Yeah. And I also think, you know, I think, Paul, you're Right here, bud. That was fantastic. Am I playing play am I playing a little fast?

Who's playing fast now? Just now I'm like, this is competitive. We're looking down the bench to see if we need to put some lead. Fourth quarter with the ball. It's on the ball.

Bench or am I like, nah, bench? Because I just see no Josh Dobbs in you, which means Which means a flash, which means a flash. Three years. Right. But I mean, there's something with Dobbs that has an expiration date.

So who's in my ear? Are you in my ear? Who's the who's the caller here? You would be the Peyton Pritchard of Provoke and Inspire. You sixth man of the year.

So you're super soft. I'll take what I I don't even know how we went down that road. Aaron put me on it, but, three two. Here we go. What were you gonna say?

Oh, okay. I feel like I should pay you guys a tuition, by the way. No. Hey. You guys invited me on the podcast.

As usual, I've commandeered it, because I'm incapable of not being zealous. And I'm just gonna be that guy. I'm incapable of not wanting to share in a half hour every single thing I've learned over the last six years. I love it, man. And and that means that I'm a human clipping penalty sometimes.

There's no That's what we all are. No illegal touching, but I'm that that's a football penalty. Okay? We don't want e next to this podcast. But see, I feel like I should pay you guys tuition, man.

Because I knew when I got here, whatever plan you had in front of you, that God wasn't gonna let it go that way. No. I might as well just do this right now. Yeah. I don't even know why I got this last time.

Boys, man. Yeah. The only thing I'm missing is dad in the dreads. Well, next up here. Boys here to teach the announcer as they have almost every single time we've sat together.

Yeah. So you guys are awesome. No. I love you guys. They we feel that way about you.

And and I'm my I don't know how close to the end we are here, but just couple thoughts I have. Like, one of the things I see in you is this this hunger to grow and to learn and to pursue truth. And I think that's such an amazing thing. And then you bring with that, like, this humility of, like, being challenged and I think that's an amazing thing. I think my my caution in that is that knowledge is not the end.

Right? Knowledge, we want to know God, but then the end is to be with God. Mhmm. And and even knowledge can have it says, you know, in first Corinthians eight, I was looking this up, you know, knowledge puffs up while love builds up. Oh.

And so it's a sense of, yes, you know, you you brought up a a kind of a bunch of, like, theological questions and challenges. And these are all believe me, Ben and I love talking about those stuff. But but a lot of those things all of that is still relatively new to me. Sure. It's been your life.

We live but but also a lot of those things are important, but they're not primary. Yeah. Right? You're right. And the primary is and we and when we get hung up on those things, then we fall into the knowledge puffs up part and not the love builds up part.

And and the and and so we just need to go back to the basics of a God who created us, who loves us, who wants us to be with him, but sin has separated us from this holy God. But he didn't leave us that way. He sent Jesus to come to die on the cross to defeat sin and to defeat death so we can be reconciled to him. That is the core of it. Mhmm.

And those secondary things, yeah, we can talk about those things. They're fun. But what what people the platform God has given you Yeah. Is not for those secondary things. It's for that.

You're so right. And and and that's our encouragement to you. You know, use that platform God's given you for that. So Thank you. Okay.

Well, when you would describe that, what is that? So when I say the sharing of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the epistles of Paul certainly, let's take we could take in the beginning was the word, and the word was with God, and the word was God. We can go back to Genesis. The first three verses in Genesis are gonna tie the trinity together. Again, like you said, knowledgeable type stuff, but it involves the trinity teaching and how this has been a common thread for a long time.

So that's the a topic. But when when it comes to those who want to learn more about the Bible, those who are watching this Yep. Come for the, gridiron gospel, leave talking about the real gospel. Yep. You know, what what do you guys say, you know, to people who are like, if they have the confidence or vulnerability to say to the Pierce boys or the announcer, alright.

You know, I wanna learn more about this. What do I do? Yep. Like, what do you guys say? Yeah.

Because that's the that. That's what that's the primary thing. Again, to me, it's it's about first things first. It it's what is your heart behind it? Is it based on a relationship and and what's the motivation?

I mean I'm gonna so I'm gonna be that person. I mean, yeah, I believe in God. And, yeah, I think I've prayed. I mean, yeah, I pray. But what does that mean?

Like a relationship with God. I mean, how do I know if I have one? How do you know if you have one? That's that is a deep Well, this is That's a great question. It's a great We have to know this.

Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. It's like the Vodie Baucham. I say the Vodie Baucham bit, but pastor Vodie Baucham, when he's asked why do you believe the Bible, And I'm I'm sure people have seen it, maybe you guys have.

I can't do it exactly, but it's like it's eyewitnesses of other eyewitnesses who, reported on supernatural events, they claim were divine in nature and not of and not of man, over a course of time. Something it's beautiful. It's wow, man. How come I can't explain things like that? I think for me and again, this gets into theological areas that we maybe don't have the time to go too deep in.

But for me, one of the most profound depictions or or, the way Jesus revealed this most most clearly to me is when he he talks about how, you know, these people come to him and say, I did all this for you. I made these sacrifices. I even performed miracles. Right? And he says, depart from me.

I never knew you. Which is haunting. Right? Haunting. To me, what that seems to indicate It ruined me for a year.

But Yeah. No. I I bet. Before I I learned about all this, it ruined me for a year. Yeah.

And I totally understand that. Yeah. But but to me, like, the heart of of your relationship with God is is is is relationship. It's it's friendship. And so how do you know that?

It requires talking to him. Talking to him, listening to him. Right? And there's so many analogies even in the marriage analogy or or friendship analogy in the sense that it's fundamentally, I wanna have a relationship with my wife. Right?

And as I go, we learn more about each other and I wanna learn everything there is to know about her. Right. I wanna go deep. But it's not the knowledge of her that is the heart of my love for her. It's something deeper than that.

It's a commitment first. Yeah. Right? I'm not always in or out depending on what I learn or how life goes. Right?

It's a commitment. Yep. And then and I know there's there's complications with this and and illustration, but for for me, that's so visceral. And then I go for broke learning more about her. Yep.

And and I wanna know I wanna be with her and I wanna do things for her. And and so I think that there is there is power in that illustration and that it is it's based on a friendship, it's based on a commitment, and then the pursuit of knowledge in the context of that is That's the greatest I'm not kidding. That's the best explanation of I've asked that question before. That's the best explanation I've ever heard and here's why. Because it doesn't begin with the Bible.

It doesn't begin with get into the gospel of John, start reading, put your palms to the sky, say come Holy Spirit and pray. Or or or excuse me. Praying's a major part of it. It doesn't start with the knowledge base. It starts with the prayer.

Yeah. I mean, let you know, allow me to be the one hundred millionth Christian or person on this podcast to say, I cannot stress enough that relationship involving talking to God. Because even if if we leave this building and it's beautiful outside and I say, come Holy Spirit, father, thank you very much for this beautiful day. I love you. And if I feel like I I feel a tingle over my body and I smile and I think that's God talking to me, okay.

That's what God has me thinking. So that could be the talking to you or relating to you. But the the talking to him and the prayer to him and then learning as I did I didn't pray to I didn't include Jesus Christ in one prayer for fifty two years. So now I had to be taught in the name of what does the in the name how do I do this? So that was far into my broadcasting careers and, and just six years ago.

So and then getting with people like you guys or getting with people you know, book of Matthew, when when two or three are together, god's happy. Mhmm. He's there with you. He's there with you. Do that.

Do that. Do that. Find people, you know. And and like I said, for me, not having not gone to seminary, pastor Wes is my number one teacher from my church, Faith Family Church. His associate, Patrick LaVore, those are two people where almost every Friday we meet.

And it's because pastors live public lives like I do. Okay? So we naturally can if I get busted for something, it's in the newspaper. Same thing with a pastor. It's in the newspaper.

If my man over there walking through the parking lot, you know, working the the office job, god god bless him. If he gets popped for something, probably in the newspapers. Now you gotta deal with certain forms of shame and persecution. That's the life God has given us and we accept it. Yep.

Yeah. But the talk, the relational part of talking to him and praying to him to show father, show me what is abiding in your word. Yep. What is being obedient after abiding in your word? Yep.

Show me what you want me to do here in this situation. And guess what? If while I'm in your bubble of love, if it doesn't work out exactly the way I hope it will or I don't see it the rest of my life, I'm never gonna stop loving you. Yeah. But but put that on him so he can come back and show us.

Yep. And like Ben said, which why I said it's the best ever because most people start with get into the book of John. Get with people and have them explain this, which is not bad. But the relationship needs to start first because then what happened to me six years ago, you know, I'm I'm I'm at a church and it's the, it's a series called All Sides of the Savior, which eventually is a book pastor Wes Feltner wrote. And it's the burden of unforgiveness.

And the Hosea, Corinthians, Philippians, Deuteronomy, I have no idea what's happening here. I just knew I was loving it, and I knew I couldn't wait to go back. And then the next week, the gospel of Matthew chapter 11 verses 28 to 30. I can stop after come to me all. I can stop right there and it's the greatest invitation I'd ever seen in my life.

Come to me all who are heavy laden. I'll give you rest. Take my yoke upon you. But when but when that passage got to the part of of, for my my, my heart is lowly and my burden is light. Well, I still don't know that God as man knows the pain he's going to face.

But that week, because now I'm getting into Matthew. So the relationship is starting on his terms. And now I've looked at it. Why is this read and the rest isn't? This version, the King James version was so poetic, and I didn't really get it.

So but when I got into that passage, it's so let me get this straight. So you know you're about ready to endure the greatest pain a human being will ever face in the history of the world. And you're telling me your burden is light? I'm in. You're telling me your heart is lowly and you can raise Lazarus and you can make the blind see?

Yeah. And and your and and your heart's lowly and mine's not? So that so recognizing that, but it starts, like Ben said, with the relationship of talking Yep. To and with God. Yep.

Then get into the knowledge piece. Yep. The abiding happens then. The obedience comes with it on God's schedule. Yeah.

We gotta I love that, man. We gotta wrap up here, but man They're they're kicking us out. I paid a thousand dollars for tuition. I get another ten minutes. They kick it.

They're kicking us out of here at 03:00. Come back next next week. We'll finish. Yeah. Okay.

Can we thank you guys so we'll make this a weekly spot. But Paul, honestly awesome. I love you guys. Yep. This is a huge privilege for us.

Honestly, you're a common thread throughout all our childhood and and still today. And on like Aaron said, your your love for people is so obvious Yes. And very inspiring. Yes. And I think it's a great gift.

Yes. Thank you. God is using you present tense. It's weird to say thank you, but thank you. No.

But don't believe anything other than that. He is using you already. Yep. And and just take that next step. And it's gonna be awesome to watch.

I wanna cheer it on. I wanna be part of it however I can. If we had more time, I'd say, what's the next step? Well, let's I don't know. I And that's beautiful.

But I don't think you need to know. I think you just need to pursue God and he'll show you the next step. Alright? Amen. Alright.

Love you too. Thanks Paul. You, bud. Rock and roll. We're done.

We're done. We're done. All of you. Thank you.

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