Does Jesus Fit Into Your Politics? | nobigdyl.

What's up, guys? I could not be more excited about today's conversation. I got to sit down with No Big Deal a k a Dylan Phillips, a Tennessee based indie hip hop artist who's known for his raw introspective style and Christ centered message. God has given him a significant platform. In 2024, he won NPR's tiny desk contest fan favorite.

And in 2025, his acoustic track, Imago Interlude, was selected as a top shelf highlight during tiny desk livestream series. Dylan is using his growing influence to boldly communicate gospel truth. He is sincere and insightful and you're gonna love what he has to say. I hope you've been enjoying these conversations as much as I have and the momentum for the podcast is incredible right now. God keeps opening up doors to speak with key voices across the Christian world and the wisdom that they're bringing to these conversations is so powerful.

We are passionate about following Jesus faithfully outside of the church and we're building this vibrant community of others who share this heart. We're doing everything we can to make this podcast awesome knowing of course that it is God's power that ultimately makes the difference. But if this podcast has encouraged you in any way, would you consider helping us grow it? Follow us on broadcast community, and just generally share this with others in your life who are serious about following Jesus faithfully in today's culture. For information about the mission that this podcast is a part of, go to steiger.org, steigger.0rg.

We are passionate about reaching those who will not walk into a church, and everything we do is centered around that, and we want you to get involved. So check that out. Alright. I thoroughly enjoyed my conversation with Tennessee rapper No Big Deal, and I know you will too. You're listening to the Provoke and Inspire podcast.

What's going on, man? I'm great, man. Yeah. Very happy to be here. Excited to get into this conversation.

Everything's great. Where are you located? I'm outside of Nashville, Tennessee. Okay. Yeah.

Yeah. Mhmm. So what's up with you now, man? I mean, we can dig into stuff. I wanna talk about music, creativity, the gospel, politics, the world.

I wanna talk about all of this. But before we just do all that, how are you, man? How is life? What what's new? What what's going on with you?

It's great, man. We, have the Always Smoke Festival coming up, so that's been dominating a lot of, like, our planning and stuff like that, which is, you know, Christian hip hop festival that we own and operate. So, it's just us doing that. There's no, like, corporate sponsor or anybody else behind that. So around this time each year, we're kinda like digging in and getting ready for planning and hospitality and, like, hosting everybody and and all the community stuff surrounding that.

So that's kind of, like, what's front of mind right now. I think a song that a ton of people are familiar with is, of course, the Margo Interlude, an amazing song and such inspiring lyrics. And I just wanted to ask, what inspired you to put those words to paper and then to put that out to the world? Because it's been pretty powerful, I think, the impact. Yeah.

I think the process of writing that song started out like, my typical writing process, which is the music or the production first. The producer of that song, his name is Obi, or On Beat Music. And we worked together for the better part of ten years. And so we have a lot of really good energy and intuition on, like, I don't I don't think he would really send that the original production for that beat to many other artists. Like, when he created that, I think he had me in mind, you know?

He knows my sensibilities. And so when I'm in the studio and I'm either working with a producer, like, in person or they've sent me a skeleton or something like that, I start free riding, freestyling to kind of it's almost like I find out what, what I'm going to write about or what God has put on my heart to write about, And that does two things. I think it helps me get out of the way and to be sensitive to, you know, what the spirit has put on my heart. And then also, the scripture says, like, out of our heart, our mouth speaks. You know?

So most of the time, I'm not really preplanning. Like, I'm not going into the studio, like, okay. This is the specific thing that I'm gonna write about today. Unless I've already started a song. That comes later.

Sure. But that first initial spark is very inspired by the music that is playing from a technical standpoint, like the rhythms and the melody and my diction and all of that is really inspired by the music. And then the concept, I try to pull out of a a stream of consciousness because I believe that's when I'm most sensitive to Yeah. What God wants me to talk about. In a technical sense, that's how that song started out.

You say that out of the heart, the mouth speaks. And what I love about what you said is that, of course, there's a spiritual component to it, right, where the holy spirit is inspiring you. But you feel the authenticity in the words, and I think, as you said, that's a reflection of the fact that you're a thinking person. You're wrestling with things in culture. And so when you speak, it's not like, you know, it's not like, okay.

Let me think of something interesting and compelling to write about. Now I gotta go find that. It's like, no. This is what's been going in my mind. So Mhmm.

You know, even from a psychological perspective, probably the stream of consciousness is just reflecting what is most in your heart at that current moment, and then it's unlocked through the beats and the melodies. But would you say that part of the pretty intense words in here are just a reflection of something that you as a person with God and looking at life are dealing with and wrestling with? Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely.

That's a really good way to describe typically how I write as well. You know, a lot of times people ask me about writer's block or the writing process. How do you think of, like you said, how do you think of things to talk about? And my answer is you have to make sure you're actually living life, having conversations with people, like engaging with culture. It can be easy to just become like a studio rat, so to speak.

Like Yeah. Okay. I'm in the studio, but then you just end up, you know, rapping or singing about rapping, you know, because you it's just it's all circular. You're just in the studio. Oh, I gotta make a song.

I gotta make I gotta make a hit. I gotta do something to go viral. Now you're not there's not substance. Like, substance comes from actually walking through life with God and talking to people. You know?

So, yeah, like, Imago interludes specifically a 100%. That's, like, things that I was wrestling with, like, personally, like, seeing what's going on in different areas of the world and engaging with culture and scripture and prayer. And those lyrics are born out of those, those conversations that happen outside of the studio. You know? Yeah.

Yeah. I I don't remember exactly who to attribute this to, but I think it might have been Tim Keller, the late Tim Keller. They asked him, you know, about preaching, and he said, man, prepare the preacher, not the sermon. Right? And so Yes.

Right? That's exactly it. Right? Which is that if you're the kind of person who's living an authentic life, you're you truly care about what Jesus cares about. You're in the word.

You're you're applying that to culture. You're always gonna have something to say, and then it's not gonna feel so contrived. And too often, right, Christian artists feel like they're just plucking issues out of thin air that they don't really hear about or they're not really wrestling with, and then you can feel it being shallow. Yes. Yeah.

Tim Keller with another bar. He's got unlimited bars. Jeez. I know. But, yeah, exactly.

Okay. Prepare the the preacher or not the what is it? Prepare the preacher or not the Not the sermon. Something like that. Not the sermon.

Yeah. Yeah. That's that's exactly how I approach writing as well. You know? Like, the things that you hear from me lyrically, these are conversations, these are experiences that I've lived through, that I've had in community.

Again, when I experienced writer's block, I'm like, this is because I am too focused on making music and not living life walking with God and with people. So I need to get out of studio and go, you know, go do that. Oh, man. That's so good. And and you feel that, and so I really applaud that.

You really feel that. Now the the subject matter has not gotten any less relevant. Yeah. I mean, I'm reading these lyrics. Like, you could have written this yesterday.

So Man. And I'm in this and I'm in Minnesota, so I don't know if you know what's going on over here with this whole crazy I probably missed it. Well, the guy that the political assassinations that happened here, I don't know if you heard, but but basically, a No. Yeah. Basically, a guy, he premeditated a list of people that he wanted to kill, and he managed to kill two, like, two politicians.

Oh my goodness. He attempted to kill two more. He had a huge hit list, and it was awful. Of course, the parallel conversation just amplified how bad it was, and that is, of course, as you know, here comes the political motives. Here comes Mhmm.

Initially, it was the right saying he was a leftist, and he was a liberal, and that's why he did that. Well, then as information came out, it was the complete opposite. And it turns out Mhmm. It was this right wing nut bar. And so then everyone on the left is dunking on the right and saying, you're you idiots, and you just had paid attention.

And, man, I don't know about you, but I just this the way that we, as followers of Jesus, just seem incapable of viewing things through the lens of Jesus and how we seem to compartmentalize politics over here and our faith over here and don't seem to even recognize the incongruence. How do you feel about that, and what do we do to move past that? Yeah. I was I was actually just speaking about, this to, with another friend. But I think first, let's just let's just look at Jesus.

Like, let's look at Jesus' ministry on Earth. Everybody had a political and social box that they were expecting the Messiah to fit into, And at different parts in his ministry, they were upset with Jesus that he was not fitting into their expectation of what he should be politically, what he should be socially. And, you know, we see this with the with the Pharisees, with the Sadducees. We see this with Rome and with Israel. Both of them wanted from Jesus.

And we see this even with the disciples who wanted a, you know, a military conqueror who's going to overthrow Rome and save the people of Israel through might. And, you know, Peter famously like, No, you're not going to die. Like, I'll die before you die, because he's thinking he's going to be the conquering Messiah in the way that he was thinking. And so we see there there's so many times that Jesus could have said, yes, I'm a Pharisee. The Pharisees are right.

Everybody else is wrong. He could have said that with the Sadducees. He could have said that with Israel. He could have been the conquering Messiah, but he is chiefly concerned with the father's will, with his ministry. And when a political or social movement is in congruence with the father's will, then Jesus is affirmative of it.

As soon as it is outside of the father's will, then he has nothing to do with it, regardless of what person or or group it's coming from. That's who we say is our Lord, our rabbi, our messiah, our God. If we're following Jesus, then the way that we interact with political and social movements should also look like that. Okay. When this is in alignment with Jesus, then we're all for it.

When that same group is not in alignment with Jesus, well, like Jesus, we have some type of opposition and correction to add to that. That's how I see these things, and that's what I try to communicate, like, through the music and with Imago Interlude. Like, my goal as I got into the nitty gritty part of the writing process, my goal was as people listen to this song, wherever they fall politically or socially, I want them to, at some point, be confronted with an enemy, even if the enemy is me for making the song. Right. Like at some point during that song, I want you to be you to identify an enemy so that the last line, you don't know Jesus till you see him in your enemy, hits harder.

You know, regardless if you're on the right or the left or wherever you fall. You know? You're there's probably parts of the song where you're like, yes. This is my guy. Finally, somebody you know, finally.

And then I say something that you're like, oh, never mind. He's not in my tribe. And that's that's the point of the song because, honestly, when I read the accounts of Jesus, that's what his ministry looked like. People were like, here we go. This is our guy.

Yep. And then he's like, actually, this is what truth is, and this is what love is. You know? And then they're like, I mean, there's there's literally oh, I wish I had I wish I had the exact passage, but there's a passage where people are, like, enthralled with what Jesus is saying. And then literally, like, they're rioting and wanna kill him, like, just a little bit down.

It's the same group of people too. I got I gotta find that. But so I think that, that's been very formative for me in how I navigate these conversations. Yeah. I feel like I straddle the middle like you do as well, and there's a quote from the great movie Braveheart that says, if you make enemies on both sides, you end up dead.

I always Yeah. I always think about that where I'm like, I don't fit anywhere. I don't feel like and it's like a parable, what you wrote, in the sense that Mhmm. Jesus was so brilliant at taking his audience along for a ride to make them feel like they were the hero only to flip the script and go Yeah. No, no, no, no.

You're not the hero. Yeah. The Samaritan, that's your neighbor, you know. So I just find that so compelling the way that you did that. I think it's such a powerful testament to art.

Why wouldn't it feel so intuitive? Right? We're we're talking about this, and I feel like I say this over and over and over. Like, man, Jesus wasn't political. Jesus didn't pick sides.

Jesus transcended these categories. Jesus Mhmm. Why is it so hard? Mhmm. Why have we gotten so off as a church?

I understand why the world is tribal. It makes sense. Mhmm. But why are we so tribal? Why are Christians so prone to pick sides the way the world does when from my understanding, the way we're describing the role of Jesus in society and currently, it feels so obvious.

Yeah. I mean, I think that it's human condition, like, you know, in a sinful broken world, like, to be tribal and to do that. So I don't think it's I don't think it's uniquely a Christian problem. No. But I do think it is something that Jesus would call us out of.

I think where it gets tough is a lot of Christian leadership is not calling us out of that, but calling us deeper into it, either explicitly or implicit or or just complicit. Like, I'm not going to speak to this at all. I'm not going to acknowledge this as a problem because we have bigger fish to fry or, or whatever. I would even say that, like, there there's a way that this idea of being in the middle can still be tribal. Sure.

Sure. Yep. Like like like, not not that not that literally being in the middle is tribal. But I'm saying there's a way in which people can wield that as their Totally. Like, tribe.

You know what I mean? Yeah. Or I hear a lot of times you said, like, Jesus is not political, and I understand exactly where you're coming from because of this conversation we're having. But sometimes people who are very much entrenched in their political party honestly, this only happens I've only seen this happen on on the right. So I I won't say that it happens on both sides because I haven't seen it happen on the left.

Maybe it does. But it's very popular in, like, conservative leaning churches to be, like, leave politics out of church. Jesus is not political. And then literally, they are, like, very political. Like Okay.

And that's that's always been a mystery to me. I I went to a church one time that was very, like, very much, Jesus is not political, keep politics out of church. This you know, what we're doing here is we herald the gospel, like the good news of Jesus. And then actually, genuinely had campaign signs for political candidates lining the pulpit, like, a couple months later. And I'm like, I feel like this is different than what you what you said a couple months ago.

You know? So there's a way in which we can kinda shirk our responsibility that it's like Jesus Jesus was not consumed with politics, and he didn't belong to any party. Yeah. But he did participate in politics in the sense that politics is just the way that society and legislation and and and cities It's a concern for people in the end. A concern for people.

He wasn't a separatist. Like, he still participated. Yeah. Yeah. So there's a way that we can be we can just throw our hands up, and that causes us to, like you said, not care about people.

Well, if you're saying, oh, I'm not political, so that's why I have no plan on how I care for widows and orphans and the oppressed, that's not that's not a Christ like response to politics. Right. You know what I mean? Like, that's not a Christ like response. I just feel like because I'm trying to analyze it.

Right? Because in the again, back to the thing in Minnesota. In the early hours, I heard from many followers of Jesus. Was this this was this week? Or This last weekend, dude.

And he literally Yeah. Impersonated a cop, put on a mask, and just had hits. He went to four houses. Two of the houses, they were out of town miraculously. In one house, he killed the politician and her husband.

The other house, he shot them both up, and miraculously, they survived, but had, like one of them had, like, nine shots. The other one, like, set I mean, it's a miracle. Mhmm. So crazy, crazy stuff, and it's coming out. I mean, there's, like, YouTube videos of this guy, like, preaching in churches.

Like, it's bad. It's as bad as you wanna get. But in the early days of it, there was these weird rumors about him being, like, a leftist and a Marxist and all this other stuff. He worked for governor Walls, which is our left leaning governor. Mhmm.

And, like, I would have fellow Christians in my life say that, like, as kind of the co headline. He killed all these people. Oh, and he is this. And there was this tone in it that was almost like, see? There's the evidence.

Mhmm. Mhmm. That's the evidence. He checked that box. That just proves we're right.

They're wrong. Us. Them. It just kinda fuels this tribalism. And I'm like, man, what is it in the human instinct that we wanna do that?

Like, we wanna be like, every time someone commits a tragedy, we wanna pull up their voting records to see what side they were on. And I think part of it is that it helps deflect the responsibility that I have that I'm complicit in the mess that we cause. And I feel like, don't you think part of this is that Jesus Yeah. Is the great leveler. He's like, no.

No. No. No. You are all Yes. In desperate need of me.

All of you. There are there are no in outs. You're all out until I can be him. And isn't that part of this is that we just we don't like to be confronted. And so if we can find evidence that we're part of the good tribe Yeah.

We're gonna look for that. Confirmation bias, we're gonna keep looking for good evidence so that we're like, yeah. Yeah. We're in the good side of this. Yes.

This is something that's been developing in my head in conversations too, which is I think that we're trying to outsource our walk with Christ or our morality, however you wanna say that, to political parties. Sure. Whoever our champion or our tribe is, we wanna outsource what we're called to do to them. So yes. So whenever they do something that we see as good, we count it as we did something good.

Like, I have done something good. And whenever they do something whenever the other side does something wrong, then it's also like, oh, I'm part of the good Right. And Separate myself from that. Where it's like, again, Jesus wants to know what you are like like, he has called you two things. Like, what are you doing?

Like, it doesn't matter what what governor Wallace is doing. What are you doing? Like, are you following me? The fact that your group or your party or your priest or your politician is or is not following me has nothing to do with are you saying yes to me or are you saying no to me day to day. Yeah.

But we we outsource that. You know? Which is why we see people, like, vote the way they do. And I'm not commenting on, like, specific issues, but I'm saying that, like, they'll get so up in arms about, like, I'm voting for this politician because of this thing that I see as a a Christian worldview or or, like, ethically, this is a Christian action. So I'm voting for this politician because of this.

And then that person specifically is doing nothing for that issue. So for example, let's say somebody is a classic pro life conservative Christian, right, which I absolutely am pro life. But let's say they're the they're the whole thing, right, and they just vote along those lines. They do nothing for crisis pregnancy centers. They do nothing for single mothers.

They do nothing for widows and orphans. They do nothing for the marginalized underserved populations in education in their in their town. Okay. The way that that politician is navigating that thing, that's that doesn't count for you. That doesn't that's not you saying yes to Jesus when he says to take care of the widows and the orphans and the sojourner and the marginalized and the least of these, you're not doing that still.

And so for me, I'm like, I have a lot more understanding and grace, and I also think that people are much more close to what Jesus is asking of to them If they fall on either side of an issue like abortion and they identify as a Christian and they're doing everything they can to say yes to Jesus in that issue, but they fall on different sides of the vote, I have so much more grace for that than somebody who just votes away and yelling into the void. How can I love my neighbor like Christ the best way? And now with my body, my time, my money, I'm going to continually pursue that. Yeah. I I think that that is much closer to what Jesus is asking then.

I picked the right side. I cast my vote. Now I'm going to the lake. Like, you know what I mean? Like Hey.

You're getting real personal. This is Minnesota, man. Lakes are all we got. No. I you're you're absolutely right.

And Yeah. I think core of what you're saying is that beneath most people is a desire to wanna do good. Yeah. And they may fall on different sides of the issue. And and, of course, in the the case of abortion, I I think that I think people are deceived.

Right? Because, I mean, I I think in that case, man, if you just from a purely scientific perspective, if you just haven't looked into it to not recognize what you're doing logically. And but I don't think most people, the majority of people, they really do think that they're helping women. They don't they don't saying. Yeah.

Not, like, evilly motivated. Like, they're waking up in the morning. Like, I wanna kill as many fetuses as I can today. Like, they think they're doing they're doing the right thing, and I they're in that case, they're deceived. Other areas, I definitely think, are more gray.

Yeah. But I think that Yeah. I I went straight to, like Yeah. You went to Yeah. And it's fine.

I and I, you know Yeah. I wanted to at least because I know you said that already, but, I mean, whatever it is. People can be mad. I don't care, man. No.

But, I mean, I think I think that using, like, the sometimes we, like, dance around what we're actually talking about. And I'm like, I think that this is what people are actually talking about it, so let's talk about that. Like, I want everything that we've said about Jesus and his ministry and him not being tribal or political but still wielding politics to love people well. I want them to apply that to the actual issue that they're thinking of, which is a lot of times abortion. You know what I mean?

So it's like, hey. Let's I'll be the one to say it. No. That's fine. And and I I I've been on here saying that exact thing.

So I I totally feel you, and and I'm with you. I and and I think the the thing you were saying that is so important is the heart and the action. Mhmm. Like, ma'am, we check a box once every four years. We think we're making a difference.

And, again, to be clear, there are amazing people out there. Like, I I got the privilege of speaking at a teen crisis pregnancy center a few weeks back. I got to give kind of a a talk about how to have spiritual conversations and with all these Amazing. Desperate, afraid, vulnerable girls who are, like, in such confusing, hard situations. Yeah.

So there are and I know you know this and agree. There are amazing men and women on both sides, frankly, who are devoting their lives to making a difference. But, man, we we've gotta we've gotta start with God's heart. I the way we demonize people, though, to your point, is just so wrong. I remember my son plays soccer, and I was, talking to one of the moms.

We could not be on different sides of the spectrum theologically, ideologically, politically, but she's telling me about the school she teaches at and how man, it's just it's rough, dude. Like, the these immigrant kids that show up in the middle of a Minnesota winter with no coats, no winter clothes. Mhmm. And then they come there, they supply them with these clothes, they go home, the clothes disappear. Like, they're gone.

Maybe they're being sold. I don't know. They come home. Mhmm. Next day, smile on her face, close them again.

Puts puts winter clothes on these little kids who don't have clothes minus 20 degrees Fahrenheit. Man. And I'm sitting there going, man, Jesus is proud of you. Like, you don't care about your vote at that point. Like, that's Jesus.

Yeah. And if we look at that woman and say, oh, you dumb liberal. I'm like, man Yeah. I when Jesus was so harsh with the Pharisees, those are the people he's harsh with. He's not Mhmm.

He has compassion on the person that maybe has some misunderstandings or they they have some fundamental things they need to change. But, man, when I see that, I'm like, that is more of what people need to see from followers of Jesus, not a check a box and I go to the lake. Yeah. Yeah. Amen.

And I think of the woman caught in adultery, like, the lesson from that, the woman actually deserves to be stoned by the letter of the law. She doesn't not deserve to be stoned by the letter of the law, but Jesus desires mercy, one, and two, the people who would hold her to the letter of the law actually don't have the authority or the moral standing to execute the law. That's why he says, okay, that is the law. He doesn't say the law is wrong, he says he who is without sin cast the first stone, so yeah, the law is good. Do you have the authority to execute the law?

By executing the law, would you just be heaping judgment on yourself because you don't have the authority? They leave, The only person left is the person who does have the authority to execute the law, Jesus. He is without sin. That's the last person left. He asked her, where are your condemners?

They're not there. Says, neither do I condemn you. Go and sin no more. So whether that is actually in the original manuscripts or not, the idea is God actually has the authority to execute the law against us because he is sinless. He has full authority, and the law is on his side.

And instead, he sends his son to die in our place. So that story is the picture of the truth of the gospel. Right? And so if we are followers of Jesus, then that should actually be our gut reaction. You know?

Our gut reaction should be how does mercy play into this situation? Yeah. That doesn't always mean that it doesn't always work out that way. Like, a person doesn't always get off, you know, scot free or whatever. Like, the sin is so destructive that so many people are hurt by it, and God is also a God of justice and all of those things.

But I think our gut reaction, our first question is how would Jesus have me be merciful in this situation? How would he have me be compassionate in this situation? And then everything can flow out of that. You know? Yeah.

But again, I think it comes back to what we were saying before, which is that I need a revelation of my own indebtedness. Like Exactly. It doesn't flow from my self righteous choice to be merciful. It's like you know what I'm saying? Because I have received mercy.

It's the debtor parable. I that's one of my favorite parables, man. It's like Yeah. If you meditated on and just lived your life in light of the parable of the debtor, right, the guy who Yeah. Is forgiven the in unforgivable amount and turns around, demands the petty debt that's out to him Yeah.

It's like, that is it. Yeah. Right? How much of this is that we have lost that sense of indebtedness? And that at the core of this is if we would have a revelation of how indebted we are, that it would be the lens that would be fixed on our eyes, that every person would be viewed through that lens.

It's like, I can't see you without seeing my sin first. And if that was the case, man, I just think it would kill this stuff. It would this Yeah. Self righteous nonsense would just be completely stopped in its tracks if we'd recognize what's true about us, about me, which is that I'm a debtor. Yes.

I think people can fall into, like, one of two things, and one is that, is I I don't I don't think I'm that bad. Like, I think I'm a pretty good person. And then the other one is I just don't believe that God is merciful. I don't believe that I have received that, Mercer. You know?

Because, I mean, if you think about it, if we really actually believe the message of that parable, like, we actually believe, okay. I had an impossible sin debt. Like, there was no way for me to pay this back. Like and god really did truly through his son completely forgive me of this insurmountable debt, then mercy would be reflexive from us. So there's only two breakdowns.

One is I don't think my debt was that much, and the other breakdown is I don't think God has really covered me in mercy. He's really forgiven me. Those are the only two things that would make me go demand that penny from the person who owed me something. Both of those create a weird, like, self righteousness. Yeah.

If there wasn't much to be forgiven, you just already have such a high view of yourself that you're you're like, oh, I'm the standard essentially of righteousness. And then if you if you don't think that you've been forgiven, then you're still working to you're working for love and forgiveness, and then you become self righteous about how much work you've done. Yeah. It's a weird way to the same outcome. You know?

Yeah. It's self. Right? Like, whether you're self loathing or full of yourself, it's still centered on self. Right?

Either way and I think that's part of it is that Jesus calls us out of that self worship or self loathing either way. Right? It's an emptying of ourselves, and it's what a profound gift. I mean, you know, all of the modern psychology confirms what the Bible's been saying forever, which is that the degree to which you think of yourself is the degree to which you are unhappy. You're so profoundly unhappy the more you think about yourself, which is why a society which has worships itself as a core value and then, you know, now you're starting to see, like, people aren't having families, they're not having kids, they're not And it's just perpetuating this self focus that I think is really robbing us of the mechanisms that Jesus put into this life for self denial.

And I think that's just so much part of this, man, is that that it it is so profound when Jesus rescued you from yourself and then calls you to a life of service for others. And then that makes you that real agent of change that I think he wants you to be. And and but it's this beautiful thing. Right? Like you said, it's not on either extreme.

I think you're right. I think some people, they think they got it all together. Other people, they feel like they're so unworthy that they couldn't possibly be used. I I think one of the most profound needs of the human heart is to be fully known and fully loved. Mhmm.

And only think about it only Jesus can do that. Only Jesus fully knows you, everything, good, bad, everything in between, and still says I love you. No human being can do that for you. And what we typically do is we hide ourselves because we don't believe that if people fully saw us for ourselves, they then we could be worthy of their love. Right?

Mhmm. And so I think that there is such profound freedom in being fully exposed before God, fully loved despite it, and then it unleashes us to be agents of change in this world. Mhmm. Yeah. Yeah.

That's beautiful, man. So here's my challenge. I want there's so many other things I wanna talk to you about, but I wanna be respectful of your time. So how long you got? Because, I mean, I would love to do another part to this, another time.

I don't know what you because the the Oh, that one might be yeah. Okay. A part a part two might be a good thing. I I have, like, ten more minutes. Okay.

But, like, a part two. Yeah. See, that's the thing. The things I wanna talk to you about are way too awesome and deep. And I want I want your opinion on it unless I can't have soundbites on these things.

They're so great. So alright. So let's if you'd be willing, let's do this again some other time. But Yeah. Let's do it.

I I love what you're doing. I think God is on you. Keep going, man. Be bold. Keep being the voice that God has called you to be.

And and, like, it's so obvious that you have such a deep intimate relationship with Jesus, and I'm so inspired by that. And guys like you give me great courage because we need more followers of Jesus with all sorts of gifts in the body of Christ who are just using those unapologetically for his purposes, and you're an example of that. So let us know how Amen. How can we be praying for you, like, in this moment right now, but and those that are listening, but just in general? Yeah.

It's funny because we were talking about this, but it's been on my heart to go deeper into some of those, like, bodily, expressions of this faith that we have. So what I mean is, like, participating more with, like, crisis pregnancy centers with, there's there's actually one in town, but, and with, the homeless and the widows and the orphans, the things that James calls pure religion, I think that I've been in a space that is largely creative and intellectual. Right. And I think that, I think that I'm oh, not I think. I know that God has produced so much fruit through the artistic and intellectual things that I've been a part of, but I don't think that that I don't think that ever takes away from the fact that he wants with my hands, with with my physical body to be involved in announcing the kingdom of god Yeah.

You know, to the marginalized. So I I want to I wanna go deeper into that. I want my family to go deeper into that. So definitely prayers for those opportunities and then also just the boldness and the and the, yeah, the the boldness, the courage, and the follow through to make that, like, more central. Yeah.

I think that's what I would that's what I would ask for. Yeah. Can I encourage you with one thought? Yes. So I know what you're feeling, in that whole area of, like, what am I doing practically?

Like, can I Yeah? I gotta be doing something. And I've wrestled with that myself, and, first of all, I think that's the right thing. But what I would also say is that when I was wrestling with this and praying through this, you know, one of the beautiful things of of the way God set things up is we're a body. Right?

Mhmm. And Yeah. God has given you a very unique voice. And what I would say is that the amount of people you're gonna inspire to be bold and radical and faithful in their calling, you are part of that. You know what I mean?

Like, when you're when somebody's listening to your music and they feel inspired not to get caught up in this tribalism, not to sell out, not to be unfaithful to Jesus, that's going to infuse that sort of power into the thing they're supposed to do. Right? Right. So I'm not necessarily saying you shouldn't follow what god might be saying to you. You probably should.

But what I also will say is you are an extension of the person doing those things because of the role you're playing faithfully. Does that make sense? And and I would say own that and say and be the best I don't know what body part that would be, but be the best that you can be. Right? Probably a mouth.

But be that and be and and I think that if we all would strive to be the most faithful, bold, radical versions of the body we're supposed to be, the net effect of that, the compounding effect of that is then you are gonna support and encourage the part of the body that you can't be. Right? Mhmm. In my own life, I was feeling exactly like you were in in the whole area of abortion, honestly. Mhmm.

And I, you know, I was praying, and I do a lot of speaking. I do a lot of writing. I do a lot of content. Within, like, a month of praying those prayers, I got this opportunity to be able to come in and do some training and teaching to these crisis pregnancy centers. And so it was like God saying, okay.

I see your gifts. I know what you can do, and I'm gonna use you in that area. So I think he'll answer that prayer, but I also wanna encourage you that I think God is already using you in a myriad of ways, practical included, because of your connection to the body of Christ. Thank you, man. That's that's very, very encouraging.

Yeah. Thank you. But be open, man, because those are dangerous prayers. Be open. Yeah.

I'm hey, man. I wherever wherever Jesus is, that's where I wanna be, and I don't wanna be you know, like Moses said, like, I I don't wanna go into the promised land if you're not gonna be there. Like I hear you. You know? So Alright.

Let me pray for you. Okay? Mhmm. So, Jesus, I thank you for Dylan. I thank you for his heart.

I thank you that he so clearly and evidently wants to be where you are and be used by you. But, Jesus, you call us branches, not vines, which means what you call him to do is to rest and cultivate intimacy. And from that place, you will flow through him and do through him what it is you want to do. And so, Jesus, I pray your calling to be unleashed on him, over him, through him. But I also pray that he would feel just how deeply and profoundly proud you are of him already in this very moment, that you are proud of him for speaking the way he speaks.

Give him an even stronger prophetic voice. Give him even stronger connection to your holy spirit that he might, like a sharp knife, speak right into the heart of culture exactly what needs to be said, when it needs to be said. Protect him. Bless him, him and his family. Thank you for this just this brother in Christ that we get to do things like this and and this new friendship, and I just pray that you would give him, just extraordinary days and years ahead in your holy and powerful name.

Amen. Amen. Thank you, bro.