3 Billion Still Haven’t Heard the Gospel — What Will We Do? Ft. David Platt (Radical)

Hey everybody, welcome back to the provoke and inspire podcast. This has been Pierce. We have got a killer episode for you today. I got to sit down along with my brother, Aaron with David Platt. I'm sure you're familiar, but if you're not, he's a pastor and author of the book Radical and a guy with a huge heart for missions and reaching the unreached. In this conversation, we talked about calling, how to reach people who are far from God, and why we still need to be focusing on so much of the world that has no access to the gospel. Now, if you are new around here, this podcast is part of a missions organization called Steiger and our hearts and David's heart could not align more. We want to see those who would not walk into a church who have no access to the gospel or who have a completely warped idea of who Jesus is hear the clear gospel and come to know him. As you will hear in this episode, we are already partnering with Radical But if you have not yet engaged with us here at Steiger, I would highly recommend you do. Go to steiger.org, S-T-E-I-G-E-R dot O-R-G. Find out how you can join this movement of people committed to reaching those who would not walk into a church. Uh, just a quick heads up. Don't miss our next provoke and inspire zoom call. It's happening on Friday, March 28th at 1230 PM CT. So just in a few days, Again, that's 1230 PM CT. This is your chance to literally have a conversation with us. We get to connect, hear your stories, go deeper, and just generally further this mission of Inspiring one another to live faithfully for Jesus in an increasingly post-Christian culture. Lastly, and as always, consider sharing this podcast with someone in your life who does not yet know about it. Bring them into our community. Let's challenge each other. Let's grow together and let's keep All right, let's go. You're listening to the Provoke and Inspire podcast. We're ready. We're here. This is the Provoked and Inspired Podcast. David Platt, thank you. Thank you for being in this little glass room in Austin, Texas. Man, it's good to be in a little glass room with you guys. Just so you know, this in post is going to have a sweet image on it. So if you do look back, just be like, wow, wow. Amazing. Yeah, yeah. Look at that. It might change. It could be all sorts of festive backgrounds. That's great, man. How's it going, man? Thanks for being here. It's great. It's good to be in Austin with you guys. I don't even know if I should have said we were in Austin. No, we are. We're here at South by Southwest in Austin. There we go. I think a lot of people in our audience are familiar with you because of maybe your book Radical and other things that you've done, but can you tell us a little bit about what God is doing with you and the ministry and the, where, where your heart is today and what God has put on your Yeah. Well, uh, summarize. So I'm a, I'm a pastor of a church in Metro DC. So, uh, our church family, um, has people from a hundred different nations, over a hundred different countries in our church family. So just. Yeah. Passionate about making disciples of the nations in our country's capital and sending people out from there to the nations. And so. That's about kind of a part of my time is spent on that team pastoring in that church and then part of my time is with Radical where we are trying to Mobilize the church to get the gospel where it hasn't gone to three billion plus people in the world who have little to no access to the gospel which we can talk about more later but uh. Uh, how can we as the entire body of Christ around the world with all the unique gifts, grace that God has given us, how can we get the gospel to people who have never heard it in the world and right now don't have access to it? So, uh, so we, uh, Do a lot to come alongside the church and other parts of the world, uh, to work together, lock arms, to get behind our brothers and sisters who are on the front lines of unreached places. And one of the cool things is that actually that is one of the places where our ministries already intersect. There's been for a while now a partnership between Radical and Steiger. Starting in Lebanon where we have a team, an active Lebanese led team there that's doing amazing work and now new work in Saudi Arabia. So it's cool because we haven't met you before, but we've already been collaborating organizationally. And so that's a pretty cool thing. Well, and that's a perfect example of like, we want to find where are the national indigenous brothers and sisters in on the front lines of unreached people who are. Doing it and how can we as the body of Christ come alongside, yeah, that Lebanese team to make the gospel known in Lebanon. Same thing in Saudi and yeah, all over the world. For those that may be unfamiliar with the concept of unreached people group, can you kind of dive into that a little bit? Yeah. So here's how I would define unreached as a people group. Who in, in the kind of biblical framework for this would be Romans fifteen Like when, when Paul's writing about his desire to go to Spain and he says, I want to see Christ preach where he's not been named. And, uh, So Spain had not been reached with the gospel. There were no, hardly any Christians, if any Christians at all, there are no churches in Spain. And so he makes a pretty outlandish statement. He says, there's no more work for me to do in these regions. Which is, I mean, he's writing in Corinth. There's a ton of work to be done in Corinth. Like, the place was totally messed up. You read two Corinthians. But what he was saying is, like, where he's been, the gospel's gone there. There's Christians there, there's churches there that are doing ministry and not everybody was supposed to like leave there to go, but he was saying we have been given a commission to make disciples of all the nations and there's Spain over here that has never heard the gospel. So I'm writing this letter to you in Rome. To let's work together to get the gospel. People have never heard it. So the way that plays out in the world today is where has Christ not been named? Now you think about, uh, Muslim parts of the world, like it's not that Jesus's name is not known there. Right. Um, Muslims believe Jesus is a prophet. Uh, but. The truth about who Jesus is and how Jesus has died on a cross and risen from the grave for our salvation, uh, that truth has not been made known in many parts of the world. Um, and so we estimate, like, and I say we, along with partners around the world, like over three billion people who have little to no access to the gospel. What that means practically is they'll be born, live, and die, and the likelihood is They'll never interact with another Christian or have any interaction with a church who can share the truth with Jesus about them. And that is not tolerable. That should not, not with all the resources we have available to us in the church, there should not be three billion people in the world who have little to no access to the gospel. So, uh, we, as the church, like God is calling us to change that. Yep. It reminds me of Hudson Taylor. I think Hudson Taylor had that burning vision of Chinese people dying and entering into eternity without ever hearing the name of Jesus. And as a, I think as a teenager felt that calling and then goes and All that he did and even a lot of what's happening in China today is, is fruit of that work. This is something that God's birthed in people's hearts for a long time, right? Yeah. Yes. And you know, if I, maybe if we could just kinda, uh, dive in a little deeper there. I think that most Christians in the West either don't know that's a reality, that there's three billion people who've never heard the gospel, either just that's like news. To us or most Christians in the West, like, think those people will be okay when they die. I mean, from a theological perspective. Yes. That's the only answer I can come up with for why we are not... Like, doing everything we can to reach the gospel. Surely, reach them with the gospel. Surely, we don't believe there are three billion people who are on a road that leads to a Christless eternity. Like eternal judgment and have never even heard the good news about Jesus and eternal life. And we're kind of sitting back, kind of coasting through. I don't, I think most people think either don't realize that's a reality or think they're going to be okay. But even, okay, they're going to be okay. Well, then how, how? How would they be okay like that? This goes to the core of the gospel. Does Jesus, is he the only way to be forgiven of our sins, saved from our sin? Like, yes, well, if we believe that, that's Romans ten Faith comes by hearing, hearing by the word of Christ. They have to hear the gospel. And I think many people maybe even think that, well, because they haven't heard, maybe that's almost like a pass into heaven. Yeah. Surely God will let them in heaven. But, well, if that was the case, then what's the worst thing we could do for them? Yeah, go and tell them. Yeah, exactly. Before we got there, 100% of them were in heaven. Now that we shared the gospel, the good news, like, there's a chance they're going to. Hell, like, no. Like, so this strikes at the core of the gospel and I just think, I pray continually that God would wake us up as a church. What was so compelling about your book was that it confronted some of the aspects of maybe Western church or American church that needed to be confronted for people to even begin to ask the question, should I be concerned for someone at all? So as I hear that, while I resonate with you academically, I can just, I'm trying to imagine the average person being awakened just to the reality of the person next door to me. What things have to shift in my heart first? That I would care at all. You know, I'm in a, I'm in a hockey rink this morning or actually last night surrounded by people who are on that path and they have access. We can get into the nuances of that. But do you know what I mean? Like what? Yes. How do we wake up at all? Because I hear it academically, but part of me is just going, I can barely care about the people on my street, let alone the people that are too A thousand miles away. Yes. Well, that's why that's actually why I wrote that book radical because I mean, it was just the overflow of conviction in my own heart. The way I would describe it was like a crisis of belief, like Okay, I say I believe, like, Jesus is necessary for salvation. Like, do I really believe this? Because I'm kind of living a nice, comfortable Christian spin on the American dream right now. And my life makes no sense if there's really an urgency to make Jesus known in the world. Like, my life needs to look very different. So do I actually believe it? And if I believe it, Well, then my, my life needs to look very different than it, than it does. And, uh, and so that's, I do think, yeah, I love the way you put that. Like, it's not, yeah, we can say things intellectually, but has it clicked in our hearts? And I can just think of so many conversations around this issue where I'm talking to people and it's like light bulbs are going on. It's like, wait a minute, there's this many people without even the knowledge of Jesus? Whoa, what am I doing? Like, I gotta, I wanna play a part in getting the gospel to them like this. I can't like ignore that. I can't turn a deaf ear and blind eye to that. So what am I going to do? What's the part I can play? And that's where, yeah, uh, what happens? I just think the church is a sleeping giant in this sense. Um, we have the resources to spread the gospel to every person on the planet. If we'll wake up like in our hearts and see it and say, yes, I want to play my part. So you have that revelation or that, that feeling like, what am I doing? There's a huge chasm in my mind between feeling that feeling and doing anything about it. Like the infomercial you see about the kids in Africa and you go, oh, that's terrible. You change the channel. What step did you take? Like, and what steps should any of us take? What's one thing we can then do in response to that? Do you know what I mean? So that it doesn't feel overwhelming and we don't just kind of move on. I love the way you were talking about being in the hockey arena last night or just the neighbor next door. Like that's certainly where it starts. Like it's not, it doesn't start with just, okay, well, how do I get on a plane and go somewhere? Like. And this is what you guys are doing all the time. Like, how can we share the gospel with a person right next to us? Like this, that's the plan. The plan for spreading the gospel among all the nations is make disciples who make disciples. So do that where you live. Like we don't have to wait. Till tomorrow to do that, like do that today in Austin or wherever God leads us. Um, and then, so as we're doing that, where we live and I would add among the nations where we live. Like there are, uh, like God has brought people from unreached parts of the world to our doorsteps. I mean, I've shared the gospel twice this week with the two guys from Pakistan that I just happened to be in an Uber with. So like God has given us the opportunity to reach the nations right here. And, and not that they have to be from another nation to share the gospel with, but we, we do this right where we live. And then we say, God, I'm open to do this wherever you lead me. And I think. If every follower of Jesus is saying, yeah, I want to follow Jesus, like walk in intimacy with him and make him known right where I live and wherever God leads me, well then. If we're actually doing that, then it will not take long. Yes. It will not take long for three billion people to hear the gospel. I think, um, when I hear all this, I think the thing that I feel is personal conviction and I also see it in the church is how distracted I am and how, how, you know, I got four kids and of course I'm Leading a mission. You have six kids. So what's your excuse? Fair enough. Fair enough. But my point, my point, my point is. There's so many distractions. I live in a world, especially the American church. It's so busy, so distracted that I think I can know these things and believe these things, but I am so distracted to even do anything about it. Right, like there's no room to, and it becomes such a, there's something about proximity, this is the challenge I think of the unreached people group dynamic is that proximity at least you can't, that can break your heart because it's there, you see it. And this can be such a concept out there that I can be detached from. Right. And especially with the business in my life. So how do we overcome that? Oh man, there's so much there. Well, one, yes, I would just step into that with you like distraction. I think that's for all of us. I mean, the adversary has so many tactics in our lives. Um, uh, but one of them being distraction. That's where, though, I do think it's helpful for us to think through. I mean, we talked about having kids like, okay, well, part of making disciples of nations is loving my kids well. And leading them to see who Jesus is and see the purpose of their lives and all the day-to-day things that we do as parents. Like, it's a part of this picture, so it's not, uh, kind of disconnected from it. I want everything I do to kind of have... This end in mind, how can I be a part of making Jesus known in the world as I'm following Jesus? Well, that plays out in my life as husband on a date night and it plays out in my life as dad with and all that I'm doing with these six kids coaching their teams or whatever. And it plays out in what, I mean, I think about the people you and I have been around today here in Austin at South by Southwest, like people who are in the marketplace or in film or in arts who are Salt and light in those contexts. Like, I just think there's so many different ways. I think about, uh, students who might be listening to this, like university students, like the opportunity to do school and be a disciple maker, like Making Jesus known on a college campus and talking about the nations on college campuses. So I just think, uh, to have a mindset to where we don't see like making Jesus known in the world is like one additional thing to do, but it's like an umbrella. Yeah. That everything we're doing is following Jesus and making him known in the world. And, but to keep that focus is a fight. It's a huge fight more today than ever, I think. I do think that there is something to the progression of Jerusalem, Judea, Samaria, and the ends of the earth. And that I think for you to get a burden for the ends of the earth, it often starts by getting a burden for your Jerusalem. Right. Like that, that's somehow connected, isn't it? It's not just some people call the answer. Some people call to Jerusalem. Like there's a progression. It's connected. I think there's so much, uh, unhealthy that can be like when we turn that kind of both end into an either or. Right. I hear all the time. Like, why are we talking about the nations? There's so many needs right around. Yes. Well, yes, of course. There's so many needs right around us. So let's like. Meet needs around us with the gospel. But if we just do that, I would say we're actually disobeying the great commission because the great commission is not just a general command to make a lot of disciples. It's a specific command to make disciples of all the nations, all the ethnic groups, all the people groups in the world. And if there's thousands of people groups that are yet to be reached by the gospel, like we have This is the impulse of the whole church in Acts. You keep pressing on to where the gospel hasn't gone. And again, not everybody moves to other places. Like, I think about the church at Antioch. Like, This church is thriving, spreading the gospel in Antioch, and the spirit sets apart Saul and Barnabas to go where the gospel hasn't gone. So we all need to be open to be that person and at the same time be open to being the person who stays in Antioch. And so it's always a both and. And to your point, it's not like we're going to make disciples in really hard places in the world if we're not doing it where we are. There's no, like, such thing as transformation by aviation. It doesn't work that way. We won't become a disciple maker on the plane. So when I think about the church I pastor in Metro DC, like I want, ah, I, my longing is for every follower of Jesus in our church family to be following Jesus and making him known right there in DC. And wherever God leads them, even in their work from DC. And then in such a way that when God picks them up and puts them in another part of the world that they, they'll do the same. They do it right there. They're following Jesus and making them known there. But yeah. And that to me, Comes when, when it's not dichotomized, but integrated. It's like when I see outreach or missions or preaching the gospel as like a separate activity, I do as rather of an extension of my love and intimacy for Jesus. Yes. Because if we, if we go to those first principles, then I think it then manifests itself the way you're called in the environment that God calls you to. And also I think you then can't help yourself. I, you know, you were talking about kids and how, you know, that's where we got to be too, right? We, I want my kids to follow Jesus. I want them to love that. For me, my dad is, you know, a hero of ours. Obviously he's seventy He's still preaching the gospel, using music and art. Praise God. And you know, this crazy multi-decade evangelist all over the world. But when I was in high school, he was giving his book to the grocery line guy and The guy was probably like, what are you giving me? But the point is he's talking to his neighbors. He's so he started a Bible study for me and my brother that became this dynamic ministry in high school. So it was, yeah, it was profound because it was never disintegrated. It always felt to me like my parents loved Jesus. They sought him with everything they had. And then that just would come out when they were, when we were in high school, it came out in that way. When they're on the road, it comes out in that way. But it wasn't this. It was a reflection of an intimacy with Jesus. That and man, that's so key because I, again, I think about conversations. I've had a day with believers in the marketplace who are that that's exactly what they're saying. Like, we just want this to be the overflow. Our identity is we're in Jesus and we're working at this tech company and we're working in the, in the arts in this way. And it just infuses who we are. And, and that's the design. Like I think about, uh, it was just this week in Acts chapter nineteen Uh, Paul is in Ephesus. He's preaching the gospel and verse ten says, All the residents of Asia heard the word of the Lord. It wasn't because Paul went to all the residents of Asia. It was all these people coming through Ephesus that were just spreading out on the wings of work. To spread the gospel where it hasn't gone because of that's just what you do as a follower of Jesus. May that be the case because I think if we're not careful, We can think, okay, three billion people have never heard the gospel. Okay, well, we need to send a few missionaries to get that done. How many professionals do we need to raise up? Yes. Professional Christians. No, like we don't need a few hundred or a few thousand more missionaries. Like, yes, just that. We need hundreds of thousands and millions and millions of followers of Jesus in the context of our lives. Obviously not just from Western parts of the world. I think about all our brothers and sisters in Christ. Yes. As the Lord provides opportunities, especially in the globalization of the marketplace that God has designed for the spread of his glory among the nations. Let's, let's open our eyes and say, let's do this together. That's the beauty of the body of Christ, right? Like we were just talking about this an hour ago where. It is so beautiful when you see someone function as they're supposed to function. And when you can look at that and go, you know, speaking to Van Hickey Filman back there, I can't be him. Like, I can't go to these underground art scenes in Minneapolis and share my art. But I love that I can cheer him on to do that. And so to me, it's watching the body of Christ in action when we are faithfully doing the part that we're supposed to play. But that doesn't mean I don't believe in intentional strategic missions to places where it hasn't been. It's not creating these weird dichotomies. Yes. It's both end, as you keep saying. Everybody playing their part and rejoicing. And I was just having a conversation earlier about the tendency to kind of compare and think, well, If I'm not doing that, I'm not doing enough or I'm doing this and others should be doing everything. I'm like, I love that picture of the global body of Christ. Yes. Just each of us playing our parts in different ways and spurring each other on. Yes. Yes. Look at each other in the eyes. They're like, keep doing what you're doing and punk rock band and everything. It's awesome. And even the punk rock band thing, it's like, you know, I've been doing this now for I don't know, almost twenty years. And so my role in this has evolved and even coming here to a place like South by Southwest and we have all these young dynamic twenty year olds and I'm like, man, I'm Feel kind of old all of a sudden, but the idea like that there is a version of risk taking radical faith that, that doesn't live within the context of a certain season. That's even been something I've been wrestling with. Like, God, I don't want to be the kind of guy that's clinging onto a version of a radical version of myself when I was twenty-two I just want it to be authentic. I want to love you. And then whatever that looks like. Okay, now I spend a lot of time on sports fields. So what does radical look like there? You know what I mean? And I have to believe that because there's, there can be an awkwardness in growing and changing and you're like, Well, how do I fit into this now? What does that look like for me in this season? So that's really good. One thing I was thinking throughout this whole process is that, yes, we all have to be faithful to that thing in front of us. But as you grow in intimacy with Jesus, he is a God of the world. Yeah. He's not just a God of my nation. And I do think that growing intimacy will naturally give you a heart for the world. Right. Because there, we gotta be careful that we don't make the God of my nation and bless my nation and my nation's interests. Right. He's a God of the world that, and I think that that is a. I think that's a natural product of growing in intimacy with him that then does give me a broken heart for the random person I don't know in Saudi Arabia Yeah, but my heart burns for them. Yes. Yes, totally. And this is where we do have to guard ourselves. I mean, now we're like really getting into it as far as. Uh, pastoring in Metro DC where, um, like, yeah, where, where's our allegiance here? Right. What is, where are affections most tied up? With making our nation great and comfortable or making Jesus known as great among all the nations. Those are two very different big picture goals. It's important. I'm not saying... Yeah, the, uh, yeah, our citizenship in our nation is unimportant, but our citizenship in a higher nation. It's a priority. Kingdom. Yes. Is. Far more important. And I think that makes a difference. It does. It really does. And I, I do believe that our allegiance is this higher kingdom, which means our priorities are different. Yes. Totally. And that will change the way we see the world that that's why I want to go to reach someone that has no personal effect. If I'm, you know, if I'm in my community, I might have a benefit. Now, I'm not saying it's not bad to do, but like there's a, there's a personal, I get to see it, I get to taste it, I get to maybe even experience the benefit of it. But when we're doing something out there, it's all for God's glory. There's nothing that I gain from it. You know, I think there's something there. Yeah, totally. And I would say, uh, there's, there's a lot here. Um, one, my mind goes to Mark chapter eleven when Jesus cleanses the temple and And, uh, and basically I think one thing that is missed sometimes in that passage is those, uh, those money changers had set up all their tables in the court of the Gentiles. Uh, which is the place that was designated for the nations to come to encounter the glory of God. And so basically the Jewish people in that context had said, we're going to have our place for worship. But then. Basically to hell with the nations who are in, who, who have this one place of worship. And if we're not careful, it's not a one-to-one comparison, but if we're not careful, we can say we're going to take care of us and our nation. And we're going to turn a deaf ear and a blind eye, which is basically to say to hell with the nations. Like we've got to be really careful to make sure our heart is aligned with God's heart. And then along those lines, that's where sometimes people say, oh, okay, so your heart is for the world. So you're a missionary. It's like, wait a minute, no, no, no, no, no. Like the spirit of Jesus wants the nations for Jesus. Yes. Do you have the spirit in you? Then you are zealous. For the nations to come to know Jesus. That's, that's for every follower of Jesus. That's not just for a few like the spirit of God wants. All the nations for the glory of God. And if the spirit of God is in us, then we are zealous. Every follower of Jesus, zealous for the spread of God's glory among the nations. It's going to play out much like we've talked about in different ways in different people's lives, but the zeal, the passion, the longing, the praying, the. Spend my life however you want toward that end should be the same for all of us. Because it's a picture of what is to come, right? All, every tribe, every tongue, every nation. Bowing before God, that is like, that's what our, what our souls long for. That's when we grow in intimacy with God, that is what his heart longs for. So our heart is going to lean into that. Right. And it's where all of history is headed. Yes. If the train of history is headed there toward what you just said, Revelation five Revelation seven and you want your life to count in this world, well then jump on that train. Amen. If that's the purpose of God, if you have another purpose that you're living for, then, well, whose purpose needs to change? Like, you're, as a child of God, you're living for what God? He, like, Revelation 5-7, all the nations. Gather around his throne, giving him glory. God's designed history to end that way. And he is blessing his people, leading his people, guiding his people toward that end. So it reminds me just of how we need to remember how finite it all is. All that we experience in front of us now is so short, so temporary. What is going to last? When you reorient yourself to that, then it's again points you to that. It points you to what is to come and how am I orienting my life towards that? Man, I was just in, I was in a conference earlier this week, uh, talking about, uh, like following Jesus in a digital age and all the things that have just changed in our lives as a result of. Phones and now AI and whatever else. But it was, I was so reminded, like it's only been like ten fifteen years that some of these technologies have been. That's such a small, like, clip in history. And so to step back, okay, God's sovereign over the whole picture. And at every time and place, and this is where, what a time to be alive. Like we have opportunities to spread the gospel in the world like never before in history. Through technology, through travel, through the globalization of today's marketplace. Like what a time to be alive in an Esther kind of way. So let's step into for such a time as this and spend our lives. Like I, Paul would have loved. The resources we have, like the opportunity to travel just about anywhere in the world in a day, the opportunity to communicate with people around the world through a device in your pocket in multiple languages. This is crazy. Yep. So let's, let's steward this. Yep. But as you said, there's the catch-22, right? Because there's also the distraction and the never-ending entertainment. What are some of the ways you see this is actually hindering people at the same time? As a paradox, as that can sound. Yeah, a million ways. Like, these devices in our pockets that are, like, have so much potential for spreading the gospel among the nations have so much potential for Numbing our minds, leading us to waste our lives on hours, literally hours every day, soaking in what's on a screen and being conformed to the pattern of this world. That's one of the things I was really convicted. Of even just preparing for this conference and being a part of it, uh, because even when we're not like looking at things that would definitely be evil or sinful. But just by programming our minds to be looking at this all the time, like we become like what we behold. And if we're spending three, four, five hours a day, like on We're becoming like what we behold. And so two Corinthians three eighteen like beholding the glory of the Lord with unveiled faces. We're being transformed from one, from one degree of glory to another. Like, what does it look like? And this is totally against the grain of the culture we live in. What does it look like to spend like concentrated time all day long? Just focus on Jesus, his word, uh, putting down the screen, looking at other people face to face. Like this is, that's a totally different way to live today. Well, but it's, it's, it's the way we're called to live. So let's, let's help each other do that. It's interesting. So our mission, the people that God has burdened us and called us to reach is we call them global youth culture. So it's young people, for us mainly young adults, all over the planet that are influenced by similar voices. You have this just wild kind of unification of culture around the world where As I shared earlier, we're going to Saudi Arabia to a music festival that headlined by the rapper Eminem. There's an opportunity there. But the problem about that is like, there's a real efficiency and need an opportunity for preaching the gospel on digital platforms. We need a lot of people, but it's really labor intensive. To walk with people. That's not like how many dollars per engagements I can get. Right. And so the problem is like this mission of Jerusalem, Judea, Samaria and ends of the earth. This is like a costly mission. This is like. Die to myself, surrender everything I got. We have to count the cost of it all. That's why I titled that book years ago, Radical. Cause this is normal for a follower of Jesus, but it looks totally different, counter-cultural, radical in this world to live like this, to live In such a way that that's what my talk was on this digital conference at this digital conference. It was the church is primed to be. To fulfill this longing that we're built into our lives with a longing for face to face community with other people like embodied presence with other people. And, but to your point, like that takes. Time that goes against the grain all the more so of our culture, uh, today. And, uh, the more we're doing that in places where there's less access to the gospel. And I would include in some ways the global youth culture in that. The harder it's going to be like there. And, and that's, that's not even taking into account the big picture, spiritual warfare that is happening in that whole picture. There is an adversary. Who is working nonstop to keep people wanting to keep us distracted and to deceive, to distract, to use all these tools for people's bad, eternal bad. And, uh, and so there we would be fools to think that we can step into making the gospel known, being salt and light, makes global youth culture and unreached people in the world. Uh, and it's going to be easy. It's going to be costly every time. I'm still trying to picture the person who's listening to this and they're hearing this and they're going, Yes, but I feel so like that's so far away from me still and so I'm just trying to tease out some practical steps that someone like that could take and you said we need to help each other. Could you talk about the idea of how important it is to find other people that have or at least want to have this burden as well and to surround yourself? Because I think we have this weird phenomenon where we're alone together. Right. And even as followers of Jesus, we, we go to our church and we sit down and we, we watch the thing and we leave and there can be this communal isolation. Like, so how important is it that we. Seek out, maybe Wix has to start with us, but we seek out and we find community, not just to reach people, to have that sort of coals coming together to burn and to hold each other accountable to actually live this way. Yes. Yes. Yeah. Like we, I need that. Me too. We, we need that. And I, I even think about, I mean, well, one, just this conversation is like spurring me on. And we need to be in a community with other brothers and sisters, whether it's brothers and sisters, we just kind of come alongside for, yeah, a conversation one day. Or, but even more so in the context of our day-to-day lives who are, who are saying, let's do this together. Let's follow Jesus, make him known together. Uh, let's help each other. I was just having a conversation earlier with somebody just about, oh, well, I mean, I mean, I feel like I have so many comforts in my life. Like how much is too much or this or that? Man, I don't trust myself in that. Like I need other brothers and sisters in Christ who are helping me do that, who were on the same page together as far as let's follow Jesus, make him known in the world. And how do we do this with each other? And that's what the local church is supposed to be. And that's where we need the local church. Um, and, and, uh, but we need to be a part of local churches that are not just, yeah, come sit next to each other, walk away and kind of go on with our lives. Like where we're actually on mission together, where we're doing this with each other. We need that. And so if, if, if you're not a part of a local church, uh, where that is a reality, then Like pray, ask God for help to find that community and pursue that community and be a part of cultivating and building that community that is not content. Content for just uh, yeah, gathering together and kind of moving on with our lives that is actually doing mission together. That's what the church is designed to be and we need it. We won't be able to do this on our own. We're not designed to do this on our own. No, and I would even say evangelism, oddly enough, becomes this individual sport. Like where we get, you know, someone will listen to this and they'll get all inspired and they'll go. Okay. I got to go out and do it where to me, this is meant to be done together with people. Not, not only because of the accountability and like camaraderie of like, Hey, we can do this. Like we can do this scary thing together. Let's, let's go out there and reach people. But also because of the complimentary skills involved. I always tell a story of like, I am a shy person one on one with new people. And so I, and I love going out to university campuses and doing interviews and talking about worldview things. So I have a friend who is the opposite. He's like a golden retriever. Like he can go up to anyone. No shame at all. So I go, okay, you're with me. Like we got our roles. Like I love deep conversations, but you're starting it. Yeah. So he, he'll be like, Hey, he'll flag them down. He'll grab them. I mean, I'm praying with students, having these great conversations. I'll do this. And the fruit is so overwhelming. It'll feel like, like, I honestly feel like God says as much as you'll go, I will give you fruit. Do you know what I mean? It's like the harvest is plentiful. The workers are for you. And it, it truly feels like, like it's waiting. Like the more, as many times as you're willing to go, I will bring people to you that you will be able to have these amazing conversations with. But there's a practical element of me knowing my own weaknesses, knowing they're not left to my own devices. I'll probably bail. So I don't know. There's an illustration, but I just think the community of this is so important. I love that. And, and, and, and just to take that a couple of steps further, well, one, Like, what you guys are doing even this week in Austin. Yeah. I was just talking with a buddy of mine who's out with your 100 young adults this week going for it. Austin from Austin, I assume. Yes, Austin from Austin. He's an incredible brother. He's a good guy. But he loves, yeah, he loves doing it like personally, but all the more so when you're around others, with others, complimenting each other. And then, but even on a deeper level, just the evangelistic impact of by this will all men know that you're my disciples by your love for one another. And when they see. So true. True community together. And then even like true worship together. I think of first Corinthians fourteen like unbeliever coming in, hearing all these people prophesying, like speaking the word of God over each other. They'll say, whoa, God is really among you. They'll fall on their faces, be convicted of their sin and just be like, that's a, that's community. That's the church illustrating the gospel in a way that's drawing people to Jesus. We're not designed to do this alone to your point. And just for context for those listening, what's happening here at South by Southwest is we've gathered about 100 young adults from all over the country to come and spend a week Like sleeping on the floor of a, of a, of a church here in the city, spending like intense times of seeking God. I mean, you don't, you start by getting it before the presence of God, right? We went through Isaiah six the other day. Right. It's just that, that presence of God that leads you to a brokenness, a woe is me. I'm a man of unclean lips. I live among a people of unclean lips, but then it leads to that commissioning. They're out engaging. They're actually right now out engaging in creative relationships. Relational evangelism on the streets. They saw people surrender to Jesus last night. On Friday, they have an open mic follow-up event for all the people that they're connecting with and they're doing it in this incredible community. The vision that God has given us is a thousand burning arrows. We do mission trips. This is a mission trip, but it's just an excuse to bring the young adults together and equip them and set them on fire and then send them home and Where they can start these missional movements. But then we're also in these contexts. Yesterday I was casting a vision for Saudi Arabia. I was saying some of you, you know, as you are practicing and living this out here at home, some of you need to go to Saudi Arabia. And we're literally mobilizing groups of young adults to go to Saudi Arabia later this year. And so it all connects, it all fits together. I, I love what you just described. I'm a big believer in short-term missions, like done right. There's a lot of ways it can be done wrong, but I look in Jesus ministry. I actually think short-term mission was like a part of his long-term disciple making strategy. He'd send them out. They're processing things, they come back, like that's, and I, I just think, man, uh, well, one, that kind of concentrated time that those young adults are experiencing here is, I mean, it's huge. I say in one week, yeah, three years of discipleship in one week. Totally. Yes. In a way that, so it would be not good, not healthy if they went back and that was like, Oh, that was a great trip to Austin and life looks the same. Lord willing, it's going to look totally different because it's like, whoa, I can do this where I live on my own campus or on my own workplace where I am. And then it, and then it fuels in the process. Whoa. This is what I'm made to do. Yes. Uh, like, and not just, uh, as a vocation, but as my identity, like as a follower of Jesus, I'm made to do this. And so to get that taste in a way that will lead them Lord willing to do that wherever they live. Yep. Well, and, and again, the beauty of the mission trip is it's a box that Americans have. We talked about how busy Americans are, but they'll go on a mission trip and then we tell them, okay, media fast, put your phone away. And now that we have a week where you're away and you can, God can punch him in the face in a good way. And like, and you, you, it's just like, you can be transformed. Like my, where I ended up, the trajectory of my life was altered because of a mission trip I went to Mexico. The trip itself was like, whatever. But God did something in my heart that literally altered the trajectory of my life. So that's the beauty of it, right? Like, it has long-term impact. And I do believe that some of the young adults that are here in Austin this week will be in Saudi Arabia later this year. I believe that's going to happen. It's great. And yeah, we'll be in only the Lord knows where he's going to lead them. The, the, what he's doing in their heart now, that's going to bear fruit in all, all kinds of ways in the days to come. So, but that's where I think what we're describing. So now to kind of back up from even just short term mission trip, I mean, what we're describing that kind of community is, is God's design for the church. Like this is what we do together. We, we work together to make Jesus known where we live. We don't have to do it alone. We work together in our community and our worship is evangelistic in the end. Because people are coming to know Jesus as they see the church. Our love for one another is evangelistic. And it's like making Jesus known in the world. And as we scatter into our different workplaces, like we're praying for boldness for each other. Or this is what the church is made for. But to our point that we keep coming back to is we, we easily get distracted and do all kinds of good things in the church and ignore like the, the things that God has most called us to. How much of that is because of the cost, right? We often say it's like we love to hear about Paul's miracles, the riots. How much of that is inextricably linked in your mind? I think it's a huge part of it. Like I, I was just having a conversation with somebody about just the persecuted church around the world and the cost. Uh, and, and one persecuted brother, he was telling me, he was like, David, he said, uh, the, the, Purpose, the, the, the aim of persecution is to silence witness. That's the way he put it. He said the aim of persecution is to silence witness, which makes sense. Like if, if people in X part of the world are just like nice people doing good things, No problem. It's when they say, I'm a follower of Jesus and I want to encourage you to follow Jesus. That's when, uh, they could get their throats lit in, in some places. So, um, person point of persecution is the silence witness. Well, if we, In a context where we're free to share the gospel, if we are silencing our own witness, this is the way he put it to me. He said, if we're silencing our own witness, we're actually identifying With persecutors around the world and not the persecuted. And, and it was like, whoa. I, no, I don't want to identify in that sense with the persecutors silencing witness. Like, no, I want to be identified with the brothers and sisters in Christ who are giving their lives, even if it does mean their throat's being slit. Because Jesus is worth it and sharing the gospel is worth it. I want to live like that where my throat is not at stake in the same way. So while I don't think we're necessarily called to seek out, you know, being persecuted per se, it's a consequence of a faithfulness, but to what degree could you say that if we are not on the receiving end of some form of persecution, we're just not Being faithful. If we're never, if there's no mocking, no criticism, no canceling, no nothing. Is there any culture that is so in step with the gospel that they're like, yes and amen. Probably not, right? No, I mean, well, not if we believe the Bible, like two Timothy 3.12, all who desire to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted. And, and I, what I love about that verse, it's, it's what you just said. It's not that we ever seek persecution, but if we desire to live a godly life in Christ Jesus, and which is the overflow of that is going to be proclaiming Jesus. Like, making Jesus known. There will be, all men will hate you because of me, Jesus said. Like, uh, I mean, if they persecuted me, they're gonna persecute you. So the more our lives are identified with Jesus, The more we'll experience opposition in the world. It's just, it's what Jesus taught us. Like the danger of our lives increases in proportion to the depth of our identification with Jesus. And are following Jesus and making him known. So we need to have eyes wide open to that reality. And that's why I think uh, just one other place my mind goes there is Acts chapter four Where, uh, like the believers are starting to experience persecution. They pray, uh, and they say, consider their threats and enable your service to speak your word with great boldness, which to me says there was a temptation to be silent. Like there was a temptation to shrink back from that. So we need to, they needed to pray for boldness. We need to pray for boldness. Like there's a spiritual battle in our own hearts to be the laborers in the harvest field. Let's pray for boldness in each other and, and just recognize it. At every age throughout history, there's fear when it comes to sharing the gospel, but that's where we got to step into that fear and pray for boldness. Yep. So just as maybe one final topic, this is something that's been really on my heart lately. And I think it's a, it's a missions problem. And that problem is weak young men. And when we're talking about hard things, counting the cost and all the confusing messages that men are facing, because I think, I don't know what you see, but if it wasn't for women, Missions would be in dire straits. Like the women are carrying the load and there is not enough young men that are stepping into this. Why do you think that is? Yes. Uh, one. Yes. I see that. Uh, two. And I totally get what you mean when you say it's a missions problem. I would just say even more fundamentally, like it's a discipleship problem. It's men. Not following Jesus. Uh, like, and I do think, I think there are a variety of things that work there. I think, um, the adversary's tactics when it comes to, well, pornography would be one major thing. Where he is just, uh, yeah, that's a stronghold and so many, and it's not obviously exclusively men, but in so many young men's lives, it is a stronghold that is keeping. Men from, one, experiencing joy and intimacy with Jesus that we're made for, and two, sidelining men on the mission of making him known. Like, it's just, he's, he's like, Yeah, he's sidelining such a large swath of men with that. And so not just pornography, desire for success, prosperity. He has so many angles. It's so many angles that he comes out in each of our lives. And so I think we then as a church have a responsibility to be in the lives of young men and to be looking in their eyes and saying, how can we spur you on toward Jesus? And this is one of the things I would just say, I'm thankful for what you guys are doing when it comes to global youth culture specifically. And I know this isn't just pertaining to men. But, uh, if the church is not intentional about engaging youth culture next generation in all kinds of places, then. There will be a lot of, uh, yeah, eighteen to thirty-five year olds in places where there is access to the gospel who are not hearing the gospel because we're not contextualizing it for them because we're not intentionally taking the gospel. To them. And that's certainly true with men. And so it's men, young men are not going to be reached with the gospel and mobilized to follow Jesus accidentally. That's got to happen intentionally, and that means the church has to be intentional about that. And to do it, uh, yes, for the spread of the gospel among the nations, but for the good of those men. Yes. Just think about the men. Yes. City where I live and the church family I'm a part of like, oh, I want their joy. I want to experience the abundance of the life God's made them for and. If, if that's going to happen, then the church is going to have to be intentional about loving those men well, meeting them where they are and leading them to life. And this, this sad counterfeit adventures that the world has them on. Whether it is the self-help hack side or it's video games and pornography. Either way, it's these fantasies as opposed to this I mean, I think about the life that I've been able to live and it's just like, you couldn't, you couldn't buy this. It's so God is such incredible things, such just the stories and the adventures and the stepping out beyond yourself. And I think that's what men want. They want an adventure. They want to. A dragon to conquer in Jesus. There really is that. And, and yet I think that, yeah, like you said, it's a discipleship thing and it's a, a modeling thing and it's also a painting a picture of what life with Jesus looks like. Yeah, it's one of my favorite C.S. Lewis quotes. I'm sure you guys are familiar with it, but we're half-hearted creatures fooling about with drink and sex and ambition when infinite joy has been offered us. Like, ignorant children are going on making mud pies in a slum because we can't imagine what's meant by the offer of a holiday at sea. And then he says, we are far too easily pleased. That's, that's, that's when I, well, one, fight against sin in my own heart. But then when I look at Men, for example, young men who are, yes, seeking pleasure in all these different things. And I'm like, it's not because your desires are too strong. They're too weak. It's because your desires are too weak. It takes so little to satisfy you. You're like, yes, I mean, it's like my kids when I, when I, when I tell one of my kids and your kids in particular, uh, you go anywhere for your birthday for dinner and they're like McDonald's and it's like, Are you serious? I said anywhere. That's all it takes for you to be pleased is processed hamburger meat. Like you have no idea what is available to you. And I'm fine with that because it's a lot cheaper, but. Uh, the reality is there's so much more. There's so I love the way you put it. I couldn't money. Couldn't pay for the life that I have experienced. Like, that's it. God has so much more for you, so much more for you. And so, like, don't settle for less than what God has for you. And what this world is selling you is counterfeit. But again, my pursuit of that life had to come from wholeness, not for it. And I think so much of what is leading men into counterfeit pursuits is a sense of inadequacy, is a sense that they're not worthy, that they're not. Valuable or they're being lied to. And when you, you gain that intimacy from Jesus, then, then from that place, you say, okay, God, I'm a branch where let's go. What do you want me to do? And so it's not like I sought out or we sought out or any of us. I think it's just faithful steps out of the place of obedience and a love for Jesus. And then you look back and you go, wow, this is quite a cool life. Thank you. What a privilege. And then my only other comment is, do you ever feel like sometimes you should just quote C.S. Lewis and just not talk? Because I do. Yeah. I mean, the way he says things, I'm just like, well, why did I even- I talked for twenty-five minutes and C.S. Lewis did it in- Three sentences better than I did in twenty minutes. But anyway, that's a side, side thought. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you, David. So this is an awesome conversation. Man, thank you guys. Well, I mean, and yeah, genuinely thank you for the way you are mobilizing the church to be intentional about, uh, reaching the next generation, global youth culture, specifically doing that among the nations. Uh, both and, uh, in Austin, in Saudi and everywhere in between. So may God bless you guys, your families, the work of your hands, uh, in ways that echo for generations to come. Uh, so yeah, this has been pure joy. Again, for that person who's feeling that sense of conviction, who sees this gulf of potential inaction and feeling the nerves and fears about what to Dude, what to take, what step to take? Would you mind praying over them that, that God would give them that clear next step and would lead them down this road to reaching their neighbor and then eventually the world? Yes. Yeah. Let's, let's pray. Um. God, I'm so, well, just overwhelmed right now because only you know the people who are listening to this at what time and place. But I, I pray that even in this moment, as they're listening to this, that they would know you've designed this moment for their good. And God, I, I just, I pray John fifteen over them. I pray that more than anything they would abide in you and in your love. I pray that they would know in a deeper way even in this moment that they Are fearfully, wonderfully made by you, created by you, formed by you, prized by you, treasured by you, loved by you so much. That Jesus has died on the cross for their sin, risen from the dead for their justification, for their salvation. For their eternal satisfaction. That for all who trust, well, for anybody who's listening to this who's not trusted in you, that you would draw them to faith in your relationship with you. And for all who do have relationship with you, they would know in a fresh way right now that not only are they forgiven of their sin, that they're filled with your spirit inside them. That they are a new creation. That the old has gone. The new has come. That Christ is in them. The hope of glory. That the power to experience abundant, full life. Is in them. Jesus, you in them. And God, I just pray that they would today, tomorrow, seek you, seek your face, meditate on your word. Abide with you in prayer. I pray that they would seek out community to follow you alongside, to make you known alongside. God, I pray that you would help them to find Be diligent to work until they do by your grace to find a church where they can follow you and make you known alongside other brothers and sisters in Christ. And God, I pray that today, tomorrow, by your spirit in them, you would give them boldness to just speak Jesus, to speak the gospel into other people's lives around them. God, in the days to come that you would lead them, guide them, direct their steps toward however, wherever. They can most make you known in their lives in ways far beyond what they could ask or imagine. And I pray that they would not settle for anything less than the fullness that's found in following you. And making you known where they live and wherever you might lead them. And we pray that together you would use us to make your glory known among the nations. In Jesus name we pray. Amen. Amen. Amen. Thanks, man. Thank you. Appreciate it. Thank you guys.